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Education level required for employment as EE
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VK3DRB:
An EE degree is fine for any work in electronics. What is important is the mindset of an EE and the ability to learn. You don't need a masters or PhD, unless the job is specifically related to their thesis.  One of the smartest electronics guru I ever knew was a technician who was often asked for his advice in electronics from seasoned engineers. I also know degree qualified EE's who leave PhD's for dead with skills.

Unfortunately I have come across discrimination by narrow minded people who think unless you have qualifications like them[/i], you can't join the club. One IBM manager would ignore you if you did not have an MBA like him. And there was another manager without a degree who ignored all job applications if they had a PhD. Its a bit like those ham radio operators who came up with any excuse to keep Morse Code as a requirement to work 20 metres HF. It really boiled down to the fact they had to learn Morse Code, so, so should everyone else. But the bigger problem in IBM was age discrimination. Unless you were young like them, you were going nowhere. In Australia, age discrimination is rampant and is out of control, a reflection on our culture that focuses on the young. I have heard older people become "invisible" when shopping - the shop assistants ignore them. A older colleague recently said to me, "Interviewers never ask if a young person can work with older people. Instead they ask whether the older person can work with young people."

So, you will always suffer some discrimination, irrespective of your educational level or your age.

In my own family we have a single degree EE, a PhD, a double degree EE/CS, a CS graduate, with older and younger engineers, and two ham radio operators (including the wife), so maybe I can speak from some experience.
Tim F:
Completing a degree shows that you possess the ability to learn enough about a topic in a short time frame to complete a task satisfactorily - a laboratory exercise, an assignment, an exam paper etc. EE is such a broad field that an undergraduate degree alone cannot teach you enough to be competent in any one discipline/area such that you could become employed in that area without additional training. Anything extra you can add to your resume/CV to show that you already trained in the required areas or you are an exceptional autonomous learner will be seen favourably by most employers as this means that they will not need to invest as much $$$ into training you for the job. From this point of view a person who has extracurricular experience in the necessary discipline will be more desirable than a person who has a higher academic degree in the wrong discipline. Extracurricular experience can be anything from work experience or volunteer work, building projects at home, attending hackerspaces/competitions - whatever you're interested in doing.
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: blueskull on September 10, 2016, 04:49:26 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on September 09, 2016, 11:43:06 pm ---
--- Quote ---This makes me consider BEng/MEng over Msc/PhD.

--- End quote ---

Our experience was that there was only one valid reason for doing a PhD, and many spurious ones. The latter included better job prospects/money; the former was "because I wanted to".

--- End quote ---

Another factor is to get deeper insight. PhD education forces one to travel through more circles and dig deeper to the paramount of his business, while MS are not required.
In the meantime, a PhD sees the trend and details in the latest technology, rather than already marketed technology. Which means, a PhD can lead a team to research future technology, not essentially pursuing immediate revenue, but rather like a technology reserve for the future of the company.

--- End quote ---

... but only in a very narrow technology. While that technology and knowledge are current and relevant, it is very valuable to a company. If not then its value is no more (and arguably less) than that which can be gained without a PhD. In many cases a company will quickly discard a world expert when they feel their expertise is no longer relevant.

IMNSHO it is possible and necessary to "get deeper insight" into whatever your employer is doing at the moment. The ability to do that can be demonstrated while still partway through a first degree course, let alone after doing a PhD. Any competent interviewer will take 5 minutes to give a yea/nay on that ability. But having the paper qualification is often a pre-requisite to meeting the competent interviewer :(

Be aware that I have worked in several R&D labs and companies for decades, and have been involved in recruiting in all of them. Without exception a PhD was only of interest if it directly matched our current needs. Even then we would reject any candidate that we felt wouldn't be useful after the current project finished. In no cases did we offer more money or a better starting position because of the PhD.

There's a career choice to be made: in melodramatic terms become "a world expert in 'Xerox Toner Mechanisms'" or become "a jack of all trades and master of none". Both are valid strategies, both have advantages and disadvantages.
SteveyG:

--- Quote from: IanB on September 09, 2016, 03:36:05 pm ---But an MEng first degree is not equivalent to a MSc postgraduate degree.

--- End quote ---

In what way?
tggzzz:

--- Quote from: Tim F on September 10, 2016, 05:25:04 am ---Completing a degree shows that you possess the ability to learn enough about a topic in a short time frame to complete a task satisfactorily - a laboratory exercise, an assignment, an exam paper etc. EE is such a broad field that an undergraduate degree alone cannot teach you enough to be competent in any one discipline/area such that you could become employed in that area without additional training.

--- End quote ---

In a decent degree course you should learn enough to know what is fundamentally possible/impossible.

Eric Laithwaite at Imperial College used to set exams where one question was easy and sufficient get you a pass mark, one was more challenging and couuld get you a good degree, and one could not be answered adequately in the time available. He expected his undergraduate engineers to be able to determine which questions to avoid. If they couldn't, they wouldn't make good engineers anyway.



--- Quote ---Anything extra you can add to your resume/CV to show that you already trained in the required areas or you are an exceptional autonomous learner will be seen favourably by most employers as this means that they will not need to invest as much $$$ into training you for the job. From this point of view a person who has extracurricular experience in the necessary discipline will be more desirable than a person who has a higher academic degree in the wrong discipline. Extracurricular experience can be anything from work experience or volunteer work, building projects at home, attending hackerspaces/competitions - whatever you're interested in doing.

--- End quote ---

Yes, except for the cost of training. The real benefit to an employer is that extracurricular experience shows the candidate is motivated, can set objectives and learn - actually enjoys the subject. A PhD can achieve the same, of course.
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