Edward Snowden affairs, what say you ?

[c4757p]

I try to be kind as often as possible, but I'm not ashamed of the fact that some things make me depart from that. Some things just don't deserve it. I still respect him as a person - we all say stupid things once in a while - but god damn was that one smelly bull turd.

There are very, very few people I dislike. In fact, if I truly dislike someone, I will rarely bother to tell them I think they've made a stinker.

The next time I crap out something like that, feel free to call me out on it.

The fact that it was dragged out in an unrelated discussion may have contributed to my slight hostility. It's something I'd be quite willing to discuss at the right time and in the right place. But dude, this ain't it.

[duskglow]

c4757p, ditto.

I just left another thread on FB because it was turning into a political monster...  sigh.

[staxquad]

Hey, while we're talking about 9/11 being an inside job, why don't we start talking about chemtrails, and the multiple shooter theory, and oh oh oh how about the fact that all of our leaders are shapeshifting reptiles?  And what about the illuminati, and Elvis being still alive, and crop circles being made by misaimed opera singer farts?

PNAC published articles stating that they needed a Pearl Harbor incident to jump start their full on perpetual imperialism.

Cheney and the Energy Task Force had a multitude of secret meetings before 9-11.

A White House document shows that executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney's energy task force in 2001 -- something long suspected by environmentalists but denied as recently as last week by industry officials testifying before Congress.

The document, obtained this week by The Washington Post, shows that officials from Exxon Mobil Corp., Conoco (before its merger with Phillips), Shell Oil Co. and BP America Inc. met in the White House complex with the Cheney aides who were developing a national energy policy, parts of which became law and parts of which are still being debated.

Cheney placed himself in control on the 9-11 day.

7 countries in 5 years to be taken over declared the week later

Cheney, PNAC and the Energy Task Force matches the motive and the execution

nobody else had motives, the lies used by the US Government to blame others didn't pass muster then let alone now


forget about the FBI entrapments or the CIA assets (Chechens)  false flag terrorism (Boston and Berg), they pull those out of their asses every time they need some convincing or distractions

[duskglow]

And this thread is now hopelessly derailed, even worse than it was when the first post was made.

I don't deny that the government could use it to their own ends, and probably did.  I don't think that they orchestrated it.

[c4757p]

That's a huge stretch. Unless you claim to know what was said in those meetings, you don't know, so don't make claims.

(Yes, I butchered the structure of that sentence. )

Cheney placed himself in control on the 9-11 day.

In control of what, his sock drawer?

7 countries in 5 years to be taken over declared the week later

The Bush administration was full of horrible, evil opportunists. Yep. That doesn't mean 9/11 was an inside job, it just means a bunch of awful bastards took advantage of it.

[c4757p]

And this thread is now hopelessly derailed, even worse than it was when the first post was made.

The unavoidable fate of all threads that begin off topic. It has to have rails to stay on them.

[staxquad]

That's a huge stretch. Unless you claim to know what was said in those meetings, you don't know, so don't make claims.

(Yes, I butchered the structure of that sentence. )

Cheney placed himself in control on the 9-11 day.

In control of what, his sock drawer?

NORAD Ordered to Stand Down on 9/11 by Dick Cheney

The Bush administration was full of horrible, evil opportunists. Yep. That doesn't mean 9/11 was an inside job, it just means a bunch of awful bastards took advantage of it.

I guess you didn't read any PNAC articles before 9-11, what they wanted to do is what they did and still want to do

[c4757p]

Searching for that phrase returns a video with an annoying guy ranting and offering no evidence of anything he says, and this, which does cite its sources, all of which appear to be valid. A few have gone missing at the links given, but a quick search turns up the content on other reputable places.

I guess you didn't read any PNAC articles before 9-11, what they wanted to do is what they did and still want to do

Just because you think people wanted to do something doesn't mean they did it.

[staxquad]

Searching for that phrase returns a video with an annoying guy ranting and offering no evidence of anything he says, and this, which does cite its sources, all of which appear to be valid. A few have gone missing at the links given, but a quick search turns up the content on other reputable places.

I guess you didn't read any PNAC articles before 9-11, what they wanted to do is what they did and still want to do

Just because you think people wanted to do something doesn't mean they did it.

the whole crew of NEOCONS co signed every article that you did not read (ignorance is bliss)



        we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;
        we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;
        we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad; [and]
        we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Calls for regime change in Iraq during Clinton years

[c4757p]

And how the fuck does that prove 9/11 was an inside job?? 

[Stonent]

The idea that something like that could be kept secret, with the exception of the occasional blithering conspiracy theorist, for as long as it supposedly has been, is absolute horseshit. No need to be subtle. He owes me a new needle for my bullshit meter  , it snapped when it hit the peg.

Agreed. That a simple robbery at a Washington hotel in 1972 couldn't be kept secret pretty much indicates that a conspiracy of this magnitude is highly improbable.

Well you know one President bugs a few rooms in a hotel and even his supporters turn on him. Another bugs the whole country and hit supporters say almost nothing at all.

[c4757p]

Just because something appears to be a convenient coincidence doesn't mean it's anything more than exactly that, a convenient coincidence. Do you have any evidence that anything was done? Please bring it out, I'd like to see it.

Well you know one President bugs a few rooms in a hotel and even his supporters turn on him. Another bugs the whole country and hit supporters say almost nothing at all.

People get sick of being outraged over the same thing over and over. That's different from people being able to keep secrets, though. This would be one big mother of a secret.

[staxquad]

And how the fuck does that prove 9/11 was an inside job?? 

The perpetrators were trained in the USA and had their entry, movement facilitated by American officials, like the underwear and shoe bombers (patsies)  had their transit facilitated at the airports

None of the 9-11 perpetrators were Afghan, or Iraqi, yet the US invaded Afghanistan, then Iraq  (and used all kinds of lies to justify both invasions)

the 9-11 commission was a whitewash and a stonewall

but then, I can see your point of view that your Government is noble and always tells the truth 

[c4757p]

Until you can cite your sources I'm just going to assume you're bullshitting. I'm hardly an expert in 9/11 conspiracy theories and the minutiae thereof and can't be expected to know whether anything you said is true, false or misinterpreted. You have so far offered nothing except tenuous connections between people and events and your own opinion as to what those mean.

[c4757p]

None of the 9-11 perpetrators were Afghan, or Iraqi, yet the US invaded Afghanistan, then Iraq  (and used all kinds of lies to justify both invasions)

If you're going to continue ignoring the actual chain of events that took place, and continue asserting that everything you hear is a "lie" without having any evidence to the contrary, than I'm going to continue assuming you don't know what you are talking about.

[TerminalJack505]

Here's a great 9/11 documentary that discusses the PNAC and the  military–industrial–congressional complex (as President Dwight Eisenhower originally called it.)



Everyone owes it to themselves to watch at least the opening.  This is the 1961 farewell address of President Eisenhower.  He was essentially warning Americans about exactly what has come to pass with regards to the military industrial complex.

[warp_foo]

The idea that something like that could be kept secret, with the exception of the occasional blithering conspiracy theorist, for as long as it supposedly has been, is absolute horseshit. No need to be subtle. He owes me a new needle for my bullshit meter  , it snapped when it hit the peg.

Agreed. That a simple robbery at a Washington hotel in 1972 couldn't be kept secret pretty much indicates that a conspiracy of this magnitude is highly improbable.

Well you know one President bugs a few rooms in a hotel and even his supporters turn on him. Another bugs the whole country and hit supporters say almost nothing at all.

The first guy didn't bug a hotel room, but he did allow/approve a robbery to get information. (He did record everything in the Oval Office...) The second guy, well... He's the second coming, a messiah, the savior, walks on water - apparently. However, like the Who said: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

We need to broom *all* of these assholes out of office.

Shame it's unlikely to happen.

m

[staxquad]

None of the 9-11 perpetrators were Afghan, or Iraqi, yet the US invaded Afghanistan, then Iraq  (and used all kinds of lies to justify both invasions)

If you're going to continue ignoring the actual chain of events that took place, and continue asserting that everything you hear is a "lie" without having any evidence to the contrary, than I'm going to continue assuming you don't know what you are talking about.

repeat: None of the 9-11 perpetrators were Afghan, or Iraqi, yet the US invaded Afghanistan, then Iraq  (and used all kinds of lies to justify both invasions

tell me what you think you know (which I assume is exactly what your Government has told you) that you pass off as truth 

[duskglow]

In a futile attempt to get this on some kind of rails, I just got that 400x64 display working with an arduino mega2560.   Timing an LCD like that is awful. 

[c4757p]

Very little. As I said, I'm not very knowledgeable of this. But I find it very, very hard to believe that a secret like this could be kept for so long. Nobody with any credibility has actually tried to claim this, and it'd be one hell of a conspiracy for every single news source to hide such important information. If you're going to make such an unlikely claim, you'll need more evidence than that to convince me.

The U.S. invaded Afghanistan because of connections between Afghanistan and al-Qaeda, which we believed responsible for the attacks. They later claimed responsibility. Knee-jerk reaction? Hell yes. But I see no reason to suspect it's a lie. As I said, they claimed responsibility for the attacks.

I don't know what to think about the Iraq invasion. I can almost see the claim for ulterior motives there - almost - but that came later.

I'm done. Tired as hell. You win, you wore me out.

[c4757p]

In a futile attempt to get this on some kind of rails, I just got that 400x64 display working with an arduino mega2560.   Timing an LCD like that is awful. 

If by some miracle a derailed train could somehow continue to run on the ground, I suspect it would surely have a spectacular crash if it hit a sudden set of rails placed under it.

[duskglow]

Perhaps...  but I'll be honest, this discussion is making me just a wee bit uncomfortable.  We've been civil so far but I'm not sure how long that's going to last, and I REALLY don't want to see us making enemies of each other.  There's a reason these topics aren't usually brought up in a professional environment.  So I thought I'd share a "professional" victory in the futile hope that maybe we can start talking about getting LCDs to work with arduinos.

Futile, but my heart's in the right place.

[c4757p]

I agree, it's time to stop this. I'm through.

[BravoV]

Here's a great 9/11 documentary that discusses the PNAC and the  military–industrial–congressional complex (as President Dwight Eisenhower originally called it.)

..<snip>...

Everyone owes it to themselves to watch at least the opening.

+1 , hey Sarge, heavily recommend you to watch this if you haven't. 

Once anyone watched the video, I strongly believe any human with decency must have a small or even tiny sensation tingling in their heart to somehow justify what Snowden or Manning did for their beloved country.

Yes, they're hero to me personally, and imho to their country too, and to the world as well, for sure they're the real villains to their government, big corporations in the industrial military complex, puppets in white house, rats in congress and those dorks in pentagon. 

Its not hard to imagine if you're one of those Iraqi that had your loved ones innocently killed during the bombing or US war campaigns in that video, and totally understandable if you've decided to join the insurgence movement in Iraq with one purpose only, which is to kill .. err.. I mean to torture & butcher just for fun at any American soldiers also it's allies like British, Australian, Canadian, Polish puppies in there as many as possible for the rest of your life.

[EEVblog]

17 pages is too far for this one I think, lock time.