Author Topic: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives  (Read 1472 times)

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Offline soldarTopic starter

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Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« on: May 25, 2024, 10:16:42 am »
Video by Bill Hammack the engineerguy. I wish he'd post more often. His videos are very interesting.

I like the thought that the engineering purpose and method is to solve problems before we have full scientific knowledge and understanding of the underlying principles, using experiments, rules of thumb etc.

And yes, it is "duck tape" because it was initially made with duck cloth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_duck 
And it carries a warning that it should not be used in ducts.



« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 10:20:22 am by soldar »
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Offline BrianHG

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Offline soldarTopic starter

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2024, 11:36:15 am »
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/fun-for-nerds/msg5510314/#msg5510314 :-DD

Oops! Sorry. I will try to be more careful in the future.

But still, besides the subject matter of this particular video, I like the thought that engineers try to solve problems with whatever they have at hand and do not really care so much about the deep nature of things while scientists try to get to understand the nature of things.

Of course there is overlap between the two but I had never really stopped to think about it that way.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2024, 12:11:12 pm »
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/fun-for-nerds/msg5510314/#msg5510314 :-DD

Oops! Sorry. I will try to be more careful in the future.

But still, besides the subject matter of this particular video, I like the thought that engineers try to solve problems with whatever they have at hand and do not really care so much about the deep nature of things while scientists try to get to understand the nature of things.

Of course there is overlap between the two but I had never really stopped to think about it that way.


    I was raised as an electronics technician and worked for many years as one but I later became an engineer.  Technicians and engineers also have different approach to problems.

    To me one of the more interesting products that demonstrate the differences between technicians and engineering and scientists are the better LeCroy scopes with their advanced math and Fourier analysis software packages.  You can clearly see that they were developed for scientists and not technicians ("engineers" fall into both ends of that scale.)

     What also interesting, if you ever get to see one, are the OLD oscilloscopes that were made for the early electronics technicians and that where all of the sweeps are based on Cycles per Second, Kilocycles per Second, etc  (yes pre-Hertz)  instead of on time.
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2024, 12:22:49 pm »
Interesting.  He describes an important difference between pressure-sensitive adhesives (PSA) and most others. They need to stick well to a backing (when there is one) and surface to which they are applied, but release cleanly from that surface.  Some people have referred to them as the cadillac of adhesives.  Of course, not all of those properties are exhibited by all PSAs.

For more details of the chemistry, consider this book Edited by Irving Skeist: https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Adhesives-Irving-Skeist/dp/1461280192  That price has increased considerably since I bought my copy in 1993.  Chapter 38, beginning p. 641 is specifically on PSA.  Some sources may allow access to those pages.
 
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Offline BrianHG

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2024, 03:02:52 pm »
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/fun-for-nerds/msg5510314/#msg5510314 :-DD

Oops! Sorry. I will try to be more careful in the future.

But still, besides the subject matter of this particular video, I like the thought that engineers try to solve problems with whatever they have at hand and do not really care so much about the deep nature of things while scientists try to get to understand the nature of things.

Of course there is overlap between the two but I had never really stopped to think about it that way.
It's ok, don't sweat it.  The thread I posted it in isn't too catchy anyways.
 

Online David Hess

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2024, 04:42:36 pm »
    To me one of the more interesting products that demonstrate the differences between technicians and engineering and scientists are the better LeCroy scopes with their advanced math and Fourier analysis software packages.  You can clearly see that they were developed for scientists and not technicians ("engineers" fall into both ends of that scale.)

LeCroy's digital storage oscilloscopes had a very different heritage than that of Tektronix or HP DSOs.  LeCroy originally made digitizers for high energy physics applications, done by scientists, so they had large record lengths and relied on post-processing.  Their DSOs reflected this design.  DSOs from Tektronix and HP were based on their earlier analog oscilloscopes, sometimes literally, and they divided their oscilloscopes roughly into "laboratory" instruments for engineers and "service" instruments for technicians.

 
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Online Benta

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2024, 10:25:11 pm »
I beg to differ.
"Duct tape" is a US invented (marketing) name that has nothing to do with ducts, but is also accepted by Canadians it seems.

Over here, the correct term is "Gaffer Tape", referring to "gaffers" who are theatre technicians or rock band roadies, who use it to keep the technical equipment (eg, cables) safely fixed and under control.
Aka "Gaffa Tape".

Sources: myself as old rock guitarist and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_tape
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2024, 10:40:39 pm »
I beg to differ.
"Duct tape" is a US invented (marketing) name that has nothing to do with ducts, but is also accepted by Canadians it seems.

Over here, the correct term is "Gaffer Tape", referring to "gaffers" who are theatre technicians or rock band roadies, who use it to keep the technical equipment (eg, cables) safely fixed and under control.
Aka "Gaffa Tape".

Sources: myself as old rock guitarist and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_tape

"Gaffer tape" as it appears in Oz is superior to the local "Duct Tape", which, yes, is used to seal air leaks in metal air ducting.
I have seen cables Gaffer taped down onto lawn----it stuck! try doing that with "Duct tape".

My saying was always "Give me a roll of Gaffer tape & a spool of jumper wire & I'll take over the world!"
 

Offline fourfathom

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2024, 01:04:57 am »
Over here, the correct term is "Gaffer Tape", referring to "gaffers" who are theatre technicians or rock band roadies, who use it to keep the technical equipment (eg, cables) safely fixed and under control.
Aka "Gaffa Tape".

Sources: myself as old rock guitarist and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_tape

Interesting.  Regardless of what wikipedia says, I've always understood "Gaffer Tape" to have a slightly less aggressive adhesive than duct tape, being used to hold or cover cable runs across a stage.  The weaker adhesive lets you remove the tape later without leaving a residue on the cables or the floor.  There is also similar tape available with a wide non-adhesive center area, for even less adhesive transfer onto the cables (nobody likes sticky cables).
Source: my experience as a rock bass player, a long time ago...
We'll search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to! -- I'll start with Radio Shack.
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2024, 02:51:52 am »
Quote
Over here, the correct term is "Gaffer Tape", referring to "gaffers" who are theatre technicians or rock band roadies, who use it to keep the technical equipment (eg, cables) safely fixed and under control.
over here gaffer only really applies in the film/tv industry ,there  the chief electrician and generally only get involved in the lighting side of things.Theater techs and roadies are further down the food chain,expected to be able too turn there hand to most things involved with putting on a production and are masters at the art of gaffer tape application . Even further down the food chain are the muso's,  who  struggle  with gaffer tape and ask silly questions  like "have you a knife/scissors to cut the tape" and often manage to encase there cables in gaffer  when trying to remove there taped down cables.
 

Offline fourfathom

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2024, 03:52:42 am »
Even further down the food chain are the muso's,  who  struggle  with gaffer tape and ask silly questions  like "have you a knife/scissors to cut the tape" and often manage to encase there cables in gaffer  when trying to remove there taped down cables.
There is a hierarchy of musos and their ability to deal with this kind of stuff.  Bass players are at the top, lead singers at the bottom.  As a bass player I was virtually required to carry tape, extension cords, extra guitar cords, guitar strings and 9V batteries (for the lead player), etc.  Drummers, being an alien lifeform, aren't considered musos ("Will the musicians and the drummer please come to the stage.") but they can be pretty handy.
We'll search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to! -- I'll start with Radio Shack.
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2024, 04:49:03 am »
Quack quack! said the tape.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2024, 02:37:43 pm »
I beg to differ.
"Duct tape" is a US invented (marketing) name that has nothing to do with ducts, but is also accepted by Canadians it seems.

Over here, the correct term is "Gaffer Tape", referring to "gaffers" who are theatre technicians or rock band roadies, who use it to keep the technical equipment (eg, cables) safely fixed and under control.
Aka "Gaffa Tape".

Sources: myself as old rock guitarist and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_tape
Duct tape and gaffer’s tape are similar, but decidedly not the same. And the wiki article says this. So does the video.

I have used both duct tape and gaffer’s tape in both USA and Switzerland, and they are considered different things in both places.

As others have said, gaffer’s tape is both stickier, yet easier to remove without residue, than duct tape. There’s a reason they can sell it at significantly higher cost than duct tape.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2024, 02:50:38 pm by tooki »
 

Online mawyatt

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2024, 03:39:35 pm »
Fond memories from back in 60s with tape and such on sound stages.

Recall when we were trying to figure out Clapton's "White Room" sound, and the music store just received the Cry Baby Wan-Wah Peddle, and a band showed up with a Hammond B3 with Twin Leslie's that wasn't working.

While fixing the B3 we decided to hook up the Cry Baby, wow what a sound back then with a B3 with twin rotating Leslie's and a Cry Baby!! When the organ player showed up we let him try out the Cry Baby. He had us make this a permanent setup with the B3, and we ended up setting up the band's entire stage (lots of tape) that evening to make sure everything worked as planned!!

Fun times back then!!

Best,
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
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Online themadhippy

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2024, 04:53:58 pm »
Quote
and a band showed up with a Hammond B3
Quote
Fun times

unless your the poor bugger whos job is to get the b3 and leslies from the back of the truck and onto the stage,especially somewhere like the 100 club in london
 

Offline RJSV

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2024, 05:15:53 pm »
   Hey YO!
   But BOZ SCAGGS had TWO LESLIES (tm) on stage; one for the B3 organ and one for Boz' guitar.   Thing is, many items, like the heavy wooded B3, were used on-stage while still attatched - strapped into the wheeled Carriers from the equip. truck.
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2024, 07:47:17 pm »
Quote
like the heavy wooded B3, were used on-stage while still attatched - strapped into the wheeled Carriers
just hope your  dont want to use the pedals ,plus wheels aint much good for ascending or descending 2 flights of stairs or getting  up onto a   stage when theres no ramp.
 
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Online Benta

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2024, 09:35:13 pm »
Oh wow!
The Cry Baby. You just brought back memories.
Beautifully made back then, thick, cast aluminium body and pedal. You could run a truck over it and even let Ritchie Blackmore go on a destruction spree, it would survive.
The rack-and-pinion drive for the potentiometer was interesting as well.
 

Online Benta

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2024, 09:39:57 pm »
Concerning duct/duck tape: I stand corrected. I've never used it myself and thought it's equivalent to gaffer tape.
 
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Online mag_therm

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2024, 10:12:01 pm »
Here is CryBaby:
https://app.box.com/s/6etb2zammfbt02osb7fswu8rhr0hnh5y

But there is a weird story this week.
The musicians ( 18 y.o.) come here for reheasal, using  two Amps I restored plus other gear.
One Amp is a 1959 Bogen with a pair of 7027A at 600V.

When I got to check what happened, the Morse practise oscillator has been found on the rack and plugged to the CryBaby, and unfortunately the  tube amp used for the experiment. Now the amp is just giving feeble distorted output.
I hope the output transformer is OK, I haven't yet opened up the amp to check it.
All the speakers are tested, sound OK.
 
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Online coromonadalix

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2024, 10:19:57 pm »
Ill squash some huge slugs i have near my house, 3 inches long mutants ???  it will make some good tape  loll

man  touching theses  leaves you with a sticky sticky really sticky  touch  lolll 

and  removing this sticky glue needs some very strong cleaner


thks for the video, instructive
 

Online Benta

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2024, 10:26:23 pm »
 

Online mag_therm

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2024, 11:59:13 pm »
Hi Benta,   There is no "authenticity" about a CE mark in itself.
The government does not issue this mark, it is just printed on the goods by any manufacturer to imply that the directives and regulations are followed.
The mark has to be larger than 5mm high, and has to scaled in proportions 20 H x 28 W.
I just check with a caliper, and ....the CryBaby mark is to scale... Yippee.

I was a bit involved (Australia and USA)  due to export of industrial electrical back in 1993 to 1995, during CE introduction.
There was anxiety , doom and gloom. At the time there were concerns that everything entering would have to be type tested etc,  Obviously it was dumbed down  a bit after that time.
 

Online Benta

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Re: Engineering of duck tape and other adhesives
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2024, 05:54:01 pm »
Hi Benta,   There is no "authenticity" about a CE mark in itself.

You misunderstood me.
The picture seems to show an original 70s/80s Cry Baby (no CE back then), and the CE sticker is from yesterday.
 


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