General > General Technical Chat
Electricians - an awkward bunch to deal with
coppercone2:
Sometimes I feel like the world has so many problems that enforcing some code on some random crap is just not worth humanities time and its a detriment to growth.
Like if electricity was the only thing that can hurt us, when we solved all other problems, then yes, I would agree with the strictest interpretation, but as it is, I find it amusing that a building spending money on being 100% on the electrical system is like much less safe then a building with a bit of ad hock wiring and money that goes to some contractors that clean ice off the steps and ensure there are no leaks, lights that went out.. and that skilled people get raises they need for retention and quality of life, so the country does not fall apart in 20 years.
What I am getting at is that the cost/benefit analysis makes me think that it went crazy. Maybe enforce some cost limits on work if you are enforcing the law so much to pedantic ends.
Like the customer was not scammed, the employee got a small raise and they actually threw a pizza party in exchange for leaving the incorrect color wire being routed to auxiliary janitors closet #13 which never had anything plugged into the outlet in 15 years. A main feeder at the hospital is one thing, but necessitating that the lowest skill and intelligence personnel need to rapidly repair a phone charger circuit to seldom used break room is just over the top. Society is just not there yet....
I feel like electricans should make as much as they do because they can trouble shoot this kind of stuff and figure out problems and whatnot, if you have 100% code, then why do you need to pay them more. The benefit is that there are massive upkeep benefits towards having skilled electronics trouble shooters because they can deal with nonidealities. There are like so many other problems to deal with.
Ed.Kloonk:
--- Quote from: AndyBeez on March 28, 2023, 08:57:23 pm ---
--- Quote from: paulca on March 28, 2023, 06:49:55 pm ---Having just had a forum on a local electrical suppliers around an inverter install it would seem the best way to piss off an electrician is to start trying to work out what it is they do in front of them.
--- End quote ---
In my opinionated opinion, sparks (electricians) come in two flavours. Those who know exactly what they are doing, understand the practical aspects of installation and, can give you a theory lesson on earth leakage current - written on the back of an envelope. And then there are those who went on a course and payed the fees. Funny how these guys never have anything in their van that is needed for the job they came to do? Not even half a yard of T&E cable. Time served? In prison I suspect.
Either species bang on about "the Regs". Some know the regs, even the latest ones, know why the regs exist and how the regs are often written by 'engineers' who have never used a Fluke installation tester in their academic lives. And then there's those who just bang on about the regs. Yes, anyone with overpowering aftershave can use a bleeping plug-in socket tester. Remember, to most people electrics is voodoo.
Regardless of the manpower quality though, you'll own a recent electrical inspection certificate which validates your insurance :-DMM
As a side: I note my autocorrection keeps trying to change the word electrician to electrocution?
--- End quote ---
In my lifetime I've seen those old guys who had to know theory to pass the course when they were young. Since then it's all about being able to parse what's written in the regs. In the name of safety. But is it safer? Fuct if I know!
Btw, my autocorrector wants to convert your autocorrection to auto-correction.
TERRA Operative:
--- Quote from: coppercone2 on March 29, 2023, 05:25:37 am ---Sometimes I feel like the world has so many problems that enforcing some code on some random crap is just not worth humanities time and its a detriment to growth.
Like if electricity was the only thing that can hurt us, when we solved all other problems, then yes, I would agree with the strictest interpretation, but as it is, I find it amusing that a building spending money on being 100% on the electrical system is like much less safe then a building with a bit of ad hock wiring and money that goes to some contractors that clean ice off the steps and ensure there are no leaks, lights that went out.. and that skilled people get raises they need for retention and quality of life, so the country does not fall apart in 20 years.
What I am getting at is that the cost/benefit analysis makes me think that it went crazy. Maybe enforce some cost limits on work if you are enforcing the law so much to pedantic ends.
Like the customer was not scammed, the employee got a small raise and they actually threw a pizza party in exchange for leaving the incorrect color wire being routed to auxiliary janitors closet #13 which never had anything plugged into the outlet in 15 years. A main feeder at the hospital is one thing, but necessitating that the lowest skill and intelligence personnel need to rapidly repair a phone charger circuit to seldom used break room is just over the top. Society is just not there yet....
I feel like electricans should make as much as they do because they can trouble shoot this kind of stuff and figure out problems and whatnot, if you have 100% code, then why do you need to pay them more. The benefit is that there are massive upkeep benefits towards having skilled electronics trouble shooters because they can deal with nonidealities. There are like so many other problems to deal with.
--- End quote ---
Until that highrise building over there burns down due to a faulty electrical termination and kills a bunch of people.
Then who is held accountable for that 'ok' amount of ad hock wiring?
The regulations weren't put in place by the government, they were originally enforced by the insurance companies. Wiring not up to code? No insurance..
It comes down to money in the end. Insurance companies won't want to take the risk on a dangerous policy, dangerous to their bottom line that is.
I think it is better to keep the issue of electrical safety small, rather than give it leeway to become one of the big issues, like whether or not to have a pizza party.
I'd rather have an alive family and stay out of prison for professional negligence than have an extra pizza or two.
Oh and the book and the training gives me a little extra job security (if I go back to electrical work), so there's that aspect that biases me too, beyond not killing people.... :D
AVGresponding:
Such animosity, I feel quite threatened... or at least I would if I wasn't instead inclined to laugh-out-loud at the general levels of generalisation, ignorance, and stereotyping
:-DD
People are people, regardless of what they do for a living; some are highly intelligent, some are less so. Some are dumb as posts. Some are friendly, some are detached. Some are downright hostile.
Assuming levels of intelligence, education, and empathy, based on the job that someone does is lazy and arrogant.
tszaboo:
I was redoing the fuse box and the entire wiring of the house when I bought it. There was a lack of ground wire in most of the rooms, and the fuse box was with fuses, not breakers. So I got two electrician, one was just doing his job, not even talking to me. The other one was doing this as his side job, his main job being a magician. I really had a good talk with him, about the tools, how is it going with life, and helped him with a bunch of simple tasks.
--- Quote from: TERRA Operative on March 29, 2023, 06:27:07 am ---The regulations weren't put in place by the government, they were originally enforced by the insurance companies. Wiring not up to code? No insurance..
It comes down to money in the end. Insurance companies won't want to take the risk on a dangerous policy, dangerous to their bottom line that is.
--- End quote ---
IMHO the issue is not with you doing something at home. The issue is with other people (including future you). You expect the electrical system of a place to work in a certain way. When you plug into an outlet, you expect something to happen, or when you flip a switch. If you do something that's outside the code, or you don't know the code, unexpected things lead to unsafe situations.
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