| General > General Technical Chat |
| Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other?? |
| << < (42/148) > >> |
| PlainName:
--- Quote ---It seems to me that understanding energy is a problem for many and related to that understanding what energy storage is. --- End quote --- I am avidly awaiting your announcement of how some energy storage thing (aside from the obvious batteries) works in the circuits you're now ignoring. |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: AnalogueLove1867 on July 03, 2022, 10:09:10 am ---What I am saying isn't a theory ( it is well established fact ). And it isn't a unifying field theory of everything. Likewise, nobody has ever produced a unifying field theory and I doubt that it is even possible. It could be just as futile as trying to create a perpetual energy machine. --- End quote --- Perpetual motion machine means only eliminating friction and at microscale that is possible as a current flow (electron stream) can be sustained forever (as far as we can measure) in a superconductor. So a closed loop of superconductor wire in which you induce an electrical current will be maintained forever (at least we can not measure any reduction in current). But if you check Veritasium video about the Faster than wind direct downwind vehicle you will see him basically claiming not perpetual motion but much worse overunity. He claims vehicle can drive forever faster than wind in the same direction which will mean overunity but he can not understand even that is what he is saying. It is worse that an university physics professor lost 10K as it was unable to explain how the vehicle works. I tried to explain that vehicle has an energy storage device (the propeller) that creates a pressure differential (air is a compressible fluid) and that stored energy is what allows vehicle to just temporarily exceed wind speed. They just made incomplete tests and drawn wrong conclusions about what they were seeing and even changed well known equations to fit what they think they saw. That video, especially the second one where he doubled down by showing a University professor incapable to understand how it works lose the argument and bet gave me PTSD. I just imagined smart young people failing to get in to university because the solved correctly this problem and the professors failing them. And yes this exact problem was present in US at least in physics competitions. You will think that access to all this information will make the society smarter overall but it seems that wrong information travels and spreads much faster and people do not have the time to think. |
| PlainName:
--- Quote ---He claims vehicle can drive forever faster than wind in the same direction which will mean overunity --- End quote --- That's where you're going wrong - it is not overunity. There is sufficient power available (the wind, after all, has a lot more power than you need to push something along), but the usual problem is harnessing it. With a sail your problem is that as you approach wind speed there is no wind blowing the sail. That's all you can see, and you don't understand (to use your favourite phrase) that the propeller allows there to be some air movement even at wind speed (because the prop moves across the wind ). The energy storage thing is just as fake and cobblers as infinite energy machines. |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 03, 2022, 05:30:57 pm ---I am avidly awaiting your announcement of how some energy storage thing (aside from the obvious batteries) works in the circuits you're now ignoring. --- End quote --- Is a capacitor an energy storage device or not ? A battery converts chemical reaction in to electricity and some batteries are rechargeable meaning you can reverse the chemical reaction by supplying energy to the battery. There is a good reason I insist in using a charged capacitor as the energy source in the circuit as understanding the capacitor is vital in understanding how electricity works. Two neutrally charged parallel metal plates (say copper) with same number of free electrons as the number of atoms will represent a discharged capacitor. There will be no electric field between the two plates. Take a wire and connect those two plates together. Nothing will charge as the wire also say made of copper is also neutral has as many free electrons as the two capacitor plates. Then get a permanent magnet and move it next to the wire. This will make the electrons move in one direction so one of the plates will have a deficit of electrons while the other plate an excess and since electrons have moved you will feel that force opposing the magnet while you are moving it so you spend some energy. Part of this energy you introduced in the circuit will end up as heat (electromagnetic radiation) due to wire having resistance and some will be stored in the capacitor. But as soon as you stopped moving the magnet the stored energy will be released as electrons now move in the opposite direction through the wire part of that energy ending up as heat and part reverse charging the capacitor but less energy as some was radiated as heat due to resistance. There may be a few cycles back and forth until all energy will be radiated as heat (electromagnetic radiation in the infrared spectrum so broad spectrum around a few THz). If you move the magnet as before you stop disconnect the wire then the capacitor will remain charged and now you will have excess electrons on one plate and deficit of electrons on the opposite plate. This excess electrons will really like to get on the other side to be united with their atoms thus this electric field that tries to pull the plates closer together. The capacitor will stay charged so you have stored electrical energy and in order to use that energy you need a wire connecting the two plates. Say you have the charged capacitor now and you connect a high resistance wire so that it takes say one hour for all electrons to move from one plate to the other. If I add another similar wire just next to this one it takes just half the time so half an hour. Why will that be if electric field is the same ? |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 03, 2022, 06:04:21 pm --- --- Quote ---He claims vehicle can drive forever faster than wind in the same direction which will mean overunity --- End quote --- That's where you're going wrong - it is not overunity. There is sufficient power available (the wind, after all, has a lot more power than you need to push something along), but the usual problem is harnessing it. With a sail your problem is that as you approach wind speed there is no wind blowing the sail. That's all you can see, and you don't understand (to use your favourite phrase) that the propeller allows there to be some air movement even at wind speed (because the prop moves across the wind ). The energy storage thing is just as fake and cobblers as infinite energy machines. --- End quote --- Any wind powered vehicle driving directly downwind will have this amount of wind power available to accelerate or do whatever it wants with. Pw = 0.5 * air density * area * (wind speed - vehicle speed)3 This above equation is true for any vehicle design and for any vehicle speed. The equation shows that when vehicle speed equals wind speed available wind power is zero and if vehicle is above wind speed the power is negative meaning it will decelerate instead of accelerate the vehicle. I can make a sail vehicle exceed wind speed same way as blackbird is doing by adding an energy storage device (the blackbird already has one build in and that is the propeller). If I add a capacitor connected to an electrical generator that takes energy from the wheel to store in this capacitor while sail vehicle moves well below wind speed I can then at some point use the energy stored in the capacitor to accelerate the vehicle and exceed wind speed but obviously for only as long as I have stored energy. When capacitor is discharged I can no longer accelerate and vehicle will start to slow down well below wind speed same as Blackbird or that treadmill model. |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |
| Previous page |