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Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other??

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electrodacus:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 03, 2022, 10:21:56 pm ---
--- Quote ---You can replace the battery with a charged capacitor. Capacitors are not magic.
--- End quote ---

You clearly don't understand the difference between batteries and capacitors!

You cannot replace one with the other. You could replace the battery with a PSU (and perhaps the circuits should, but then you would argue about the invisible supply having some magic value, probably), but not with a capacitor.

--- End quote ---

:) What ?
Why can I not replace a battery with a charged capacitor ?

Naej:

--- Quote from: hamster_nz on July 03, 2022, 12:56:00 am ---
--- Quote from: Naej on July 03, 2022, 12:14:51 am ---Yes. Also, the energy is transferred in the conductors and only light is outside of them. Electrons with high potential carry a lot of energy.

--- End quote ---
An electron at high potential has as much energy as any other electron moving at the same speed speed.

--- End quote ---
No. Kinetic energy is not the only energy.

--- Quote from: hamster_nz on July 03, 2022, 12:56:00 am ---In the schematic attached, when the ground connection is moved the electrons in the upper loop are not 'unburdened' of the energy they were carrying. They don't speed up. They don't slow down for them nothing changes.

Does the location of the ground connection make any difference to the heat in the resistor? It should, if the potential energy of each electron changes by 1000x.

--- End quote ---
No it should not. Difference of energy matters, not energy itself.

PlainName:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 03, 2022, 10:27:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 03, 2022, 10:19:40 pm ---
--- Quote ---How is the voltage the same in both cases ?
You have 1A and 1V in the left side (duplicated) and you have 1A and 2V on the right side.
--- End quote ---

I think you don't understand ohm's law.

On the right there are two 1V batteries, and two 1R resistors - that is 1V across each resistor (as you can see from the simulation). So the top half of that circuit has the same voltage and current and resistance values as a single circuit from the left.

--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

Well, that's what we're asking you. On the one hand there is 1A along that top wire and the entire circuit burns 1W. On the other hand there is 1A along that top wire and the circuit burns 2W. In both cases the voltage drop across it is the same (i.e. 1V battery - 1R.1A, or 2V battery - 2R.1A). So what IS the difference?

Remember that you say the energy travels in the wire, so what is different in that wire?

What is the difference between two 1V batteries in series and a single 2V battery? Also what is the difference between two 1 Ohm resistors in series and a single 2Ohm resistor ?
You have two completely separate loops with 1V battery and 1Ohm resistor on the left and a single loop that you can simplify as a 2V battery and a 2 Ohm resistor.
[/quote]

PlainName:

--- Quote ---:) What ?
Why can I not replace a battery with a charged capacitor ?
--- End quote ---

For one, as soon as you start using the capacitor energy the voltage drops and then you'll start demanding a graph of voltage over time and wibbling on about how the energy is depleting and... well, you have form, let's put it like that.

For another the battey is going last a lot longer and give a steady output. That's all the reason the battery is there - it is a constant source. It's not ACTUALLY, a battery, but the circuit diagram doesn't have a symbol for a electrodacus-proof source, so that's the nearest we have.

And, no. There is negligible internal resistance in this source, so forget about diverting to a discussion of that.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 03, 2022, 10:23:27 pm ---
That's assuming a sail or similar, isn't it?

--- End quote ---

The equation I wrote a few post earlier for a direct downwind vehicle applies to all vehicle designs.
You likely are confusing power with energy.

Why do you think my equation will be valid for a sail powered vehicle driving directly down wind but not for one that has a propeller installed and connected to wheels ?
Equation will not change based on vehicle design. Only the value of the variables inside the equation will change but equation will be the same.

The explanation Derek gave to that vehicle is the same that people give to those motor generator devices where a motor is connected to a generator and generator produces energy that powers the motor and motor then rotates the generator and not only that works like a perpetuum mobile but  it generates extra energy to even light up an incandescent lamp.

A lot of people buy those things thinking.  Same as many people accepted the flawed explanation from Veritasium.
I will normally not get involved as not all people can be experts in all field but when large science communicators are involved (not just Derek but also the older generation Neil Tyson) and University level Physics professors then I can no longer ignore it as I may need a doctor at some point or even buy a vehicle from people with that level of understanding of physics thus impact is way to serious to ignore.   

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