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Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other??

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hamster_nz:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 04, 2022, 01:55:39 am ---Looking forward to know how the energy travels from the battery to the wires if is not carried by the electrons (charged particles) moving inside the wire.

--- End quote ---
The same way electrical energy works in a capacitor or a transformer winding, or electromagnetic radiation. Charge doesn't 'carry' the energy, if they did, capacitors and transformers wouldn't work, because no charge is transferred.


--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 04, 2022, 01:55:39 am ---What is the name of the field that supplies the energy to the wires ? 

--- End quote ---
A decent wire has minimal energy 'supplied' to it.

But if you are asking what "What is the name of the field that supplies the energy to resistor?" it's the electric and magnetic fields. They even have their own Wikipedia pages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_field (in the context of "It also refers to the physical field for a system of charged particles")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field


--- Quote ---How will the field know to deliver 9x more energy to one wire than the other physically identical wire ?

--- End quote ---
For any decent wire it will be 'delivering' minimal energy to the wire - so it doesn't have to know anything!


--- Quote ---What is the field intensity and frequency?

--- End quote ---
Some guy called Maxwell made up some equations that you can use to model them, by extending the work of Gauss, Ampère and Faraday.

Those equations are also famous enough to have their own Wikipedia pages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_equations

AnalogueLove1867:

--- Quote from: hamster_nz on July 04, 2022, 02:52:09 am ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 04, 2022, 01:55:39 am ---Looking forward to know how the energy travels from the battery to the wires if is not carried by the electrons (charged particles) moving inside the wire.

--- End quote ---
The same way electrical energy works in a capacitor or a transformer winding, or electromagnetic radiation. Charge doesn't 'carry' the energy, if they did, capacitors and transformers wouldn't work, because no charge is transferred.


--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 04, 2022, 01:55:39 am ---What is the name of the field that supplies the energy to the wires ? 

--- End quote ---
A decent wire has minimal energy 'supplied' to it.

But if you are asking what "What is the name of the field that supplies the energy to resistor?" it's the electric and magnetic fields. They even have their own Wikipedia pages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_field (in the context of "It also refers to the physical field for a system of charged particles")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field


--- Quote ---How will the field know to deliver 9x more energy to one wire than the other physically identical wire ?

--- End quote ---
For any decent wire it will be 'delivering' minimal energy to the wire - so it doesn't have to know anything!


--- Quote ---What is the field intensity and frequency?

--- End quote ---
Some guy called Maxwell made up some equations that you can use to model them, by extending the work of Gauss, Ampère and Faraday.

Those equations are also famous enough to have their own Wikipedia pages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_equations

--- End quote ---


Capacitor -> A surplus of electrons on one plate generates a negative electrical field that repels electrons away from the other capacitor plate...
Transformer winding -> AC accelerating electrons in a coil of wire generate an alternating magnetic field that then induces an AC current in a second coil. The second coil always has less energy than the first due to energy loss
                                    because the movement of electrons in the first coil is being converted into a magnetic field and back into moving electrons in a second coil.
Electromagnetic radiation is always produced by moving charged particles, nuclear decay, particle collisions, chemical reactions etc etc. Always particles.

Yeah, linking the the wikipedia articles on magnetic and electric fields isn't answering his question.

hamster_nz:

--- Quote from: AnalogueLove1867 on July 04, 2022, 02:48:13 am ---Richard Feynman would agree with this.

--- End quote ---
Can you ask him please? I too would love to know if he agrees with you.


--- Quote ---Notice how many times he emphasizes that it is "nuts" and a "theory". He said it four times on that page.

--- End quote ---

Yes, it sounds 'nuts' because it is counter-intuitive, but when a physicist uses the word theory they do not mean an unsubstantiated hunch.


--- Quote ---However Veritasium is never worth listening to. Veritasium is a joke.

--- End quote ---
Veritasium isn't a physics lecture, it is infotainment. Parth G is more my style...

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: hamster_nz on July 04, 2022, 02:52:09 am ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 04, 2022, 01:55:39 am ---Looking forward to know how the energy travels from the battery to the wires if is not carried by the electrons (charged particles) moving inside the wire.

--- End quote ---
The same way electrical energy works in a capacitor or a transformer winding, or electromagnetic radiation. Charge doesn't 'carry' the energy, if they did, capacitors and transformers wouldn't work, because no charge is transferred.


--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 04, 2022, 01:55:39 am ---What is the name of the field that supplies the energy to the wires ? 

--- End quote ---
A decent wire has minimal energy 'supplied' to it.

But if you are asking what "What is the name of the field that supplies the energy to resistor?" it's the electric and magnetic fields. They even have their own Wikipedia pages:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_field (in the context of "It also refers to the physical field for a system of charged particles")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field


--- End quote ---


An open switch is a capacitor so how come that energy is not flowing through it unless you close the circuit ?
Apply a DC supply to a transformer winding and other than during the transient when inductor is being charged or discharged there will be no energy arriving at the secondary coil. The primary will just dissipate all the energy from the DC supply as heat (which is electromagnetic radiation so photons).


So how come that measured magnetic field around the high resistance wire has the same value as the one around the low resistance wire where 9x less energy is dissipated as on the high resistance one. Also the magnetic field is constant same as the field around a permanent magnet.
The electric field between the two wires or between the same wires depending how you arrange the wires will be also constant.
Same as the electric field between the plates of a charged capacitor. The field is there inside the capacitor but it transfers no energy as an isolated capacitor will maintain his charge.


--- Quote from: hamster_nz on July 04, 2022, 02:52:09 am ---For any decent wire it will be 'delivering' minimal energy to the wire - so it doesn't have to know anything!

--- End quote ---

? The wires in this example are the load so all energy from battery is delivered to wires and nothing else. Is just that one wire will receive 9x more energy than the other one even tho they have the exact same length and surface area.


--- Quote from: hamster_nz on July 04, 2022, 02:52:09 am ---Some guy called Maxwell made up some equations that you can use to model them, by extending the work of Gauss, Ampère and Faraday.

Those equations are also famous enough to have their own Wikipedia pages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_equations

--- End quote ---

Are you aware that when Maxwell (a mathematician) wrote those equations nobody including him knew such things as electrons exist ?
Maxwell published his equations in 1865
JJ Thomson (a physicist) discovered the electron in 1897 that is 18 years after Maxwell died.

AnalogueLove1867:

--- Quote from: hamster_nz on July 04, 2022, 03:14:56 am ---
--- Quote from: AnalogueLove1867 on July 04, 2022, 02:48:13 am ---Richard Feynman would agree with this.

--- End quote ---
Can you ask him please? I too would love to know if he agrees with you.


--- Quote ---

Notice how many times he emphasizes that it is "nuts" and a "theory". He said it four times on that page.

--- End quote ---

Yes, it sounds 'nuts' because it is counter-intuitive, but when a physicist uses the word theory they do not mean an unsubstantiated hunch.


--- Quote ---However Veritasium is never worth listening to. Veritasium is a joke.

--- End quote ---
Veritasium isn't a physics lecture, it is infotainment. Parth G is more my style...



--- End quote ---


Richard Feynman would never tell you that electrical signals travel at the speed of light.... Or that electrical energy only flows outside of the wire...

Richard Feynman called it "nuts" and a "theory" because it is just a theory and it is also nuts.
It isn't a physical reality. It is a theory that can be used in circuit calculations.
As an analogy
music doesn't travel through the air as millions of different frequency sine waves just because you can mathematically  represent any wave as a collection of sine waves via Fourier analysis.

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