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Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other??
AnalogueLove1867:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 04, 2022, 04:11:08 pm ---
--- Quote from: AnalogueLove1867 on July 04, 2022, 07:42:04 am ---Yeah, completely agree with you. No resistance so no loss by that mechanism.
Placing a piece of unmagnetized iron next to the superconductor loop would also reduce the current of the loop as it expends energy in magnetizing the iron.
Same goes with the air and other moving gases or liquids. the flow of air past a superconductor would gradually extract energy because it has a relative permeability of 1.00000037 lol.
So you would need magnetic shielding AND a vacuum to prevent those loss mechanisms.
Just don't understand why nobody has done a long-term superconducting energy storage test. Seems crazy. Would love it if someone could find some study over months or years.
--- End quote ---
First time I heard of a superconductor I asked myself if the resistance was truly zero or it was just limited by measurement precision.
But then when you see what actually happen with type 1 superconductors in terms of resistance, that sudden drop to zero when the critical temperature is reached you know that something very significant has happened is not a gradual resistance drop towards zero.
If you drop a permanent magnet through a thick copper pipe so ultra low electrical resistance the speed at witch the magnet falls is reduced as part of the potential energy of the magnet is converted to electromagnetic radiation (heat) in the copper pipe.
If that pipe is made of super conductor material then magnet will just levitate / float likely forever but even if it is a few minutes and you have no special measurement devices it is enough to show that it is a perfect mirror for the magnetic field.
It will be the equivalent to having a perfect mirror for photos so if you had that you put some photons in a box and they will bounce there for a few minutes then you will know for sure it is a perfect mirror.
There is no perfect isolator not even perfect vacuum in real life but it seems perfect conductor is not a problem. But is also not magical as while resistance is zero you are limited to max current you can transport through the superconductor before it becomes a normal conductor.
--- End quote ---
With your explanation of the blackbird faster-than-wind mechanism. Could you test it by monitoring the speed of the vehicle and the air pressure behind the propeller?
Since the vehicle should be oscillating between being slower than the wind and faster than the wind. Just a thought. Would a heaver vehicle change the rate of speed oscillation? just some thoughts.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: AnalogueLove1867 on July 05, 2022, 05:29:49 am ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 04, 2022, 03:36:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: AnalogueLove1867 on July 04, 2022, 12:57:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 04, 2022, 12:26:56 pm ---
--- Quote from: AnalogueLove1867 on July 04, 2022, 01:51:53 am ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 03, 2022, 01:43:10 pm ---
Someone is getting their fields crossed (pun intended).
--- End quote ---
Wow, people here are an interesting bunch. If you connect any insulated metallic object to a minus 9v terminal, the terminal will push extra electrons into the object creating an overall negative charge.
--- End quote ---
That is wrong. An insulated metalic object will be polarized with more electrons further away from the battery minus terminal, and less electrons closer to the battery minus terminal, but the net charge will be unaffected.
Where did you get this idea? Or did you simply mistype it?
--- Quote ---When you disconnect the terminal the object will retain its charge because there is no way for the extra electrons to escape to an area with a lower concentration of electrons.
When you discharge the metallic object a small measurable current will pass from the object to ground. That is the extra electrons flowing from the object to ground. The object then returns to a 0 potential.
All conductors have some capacitance. It isn't just capacitors.
No, there is no chicken and the egg situation. In every example you can possibly give, it is a forced movement of charged particles with mass that produces a macroscopic potential difference in electronics.
The energy required to move electrons can come from chemical reactions, thermal energy, Nuclear bombardment, Radioactive decay, macroscopic motion ( turboelectric generators ), compression ( piezo-electrics) etc
--- End quote ---
Everything after your error can be ignored.
--- End quote ---
You are confusing electrostatic induction at a distance with a direct conducting connection lol. That is YOUR error! Yes, everything YOU say is probably garbage.
You are directly connecting a minus 9v battery terminal to an insulated conductor. It becomes a conducting extension of the terminal.
So during the connection extra electrons can flow from the negative terminal into the conductor until it also contains more electrons than protons and thus carries a net negative charge.
When you disconnect the conductor it retains this charge because it IS INSULATED! SUSPENDED ON A FOAM CUP ETC PLEASE USE YOUR OWN BRAIN. INSULATED FROM GROUND....
When you discharge it to ground a small current of surplus electrons flows out to ground.
This routinely happens all the time.
If a charged insulated conductor touches an identical neutral insulated conductor they both end up charged to half the capacity of the original conductor. Conservation of charge.
Monopole magnets don't exist but mono-charges certainly do.
Funny how you represent yourself with a monkey pic. An accurate depiction.
--- End quote ---
The problem is your misstatement of touching an insulated conductor to the battery. If it is insulated, the conductor can't make contact with the battery terminal.
Why would you describe the conductor as insulated if it is intended to make conductive contact with the battery? I suggest you focus on the relevant aspects of the problem and not introduce confusion.
--- End quote ---
INSULATED FROM THE GROUND.... INSULATED FROM THE GROUND.... AN ELECTRICALLY ISOLATED PIECE OF METAL...
--- End quote ---
Ohhhh... in contrast to all the grounded metal wires that have been in this discussion. Very important to distinguish. ::)
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: AnalogueLove1867 on July 05, 2022, 06:03:02 am ---
With your explanation of the blackbird faster-than-wind mechanism. Could you test it by monitoring the speed of the vehicle and the air pressure behind the propeller?
Since the vehicle should be oscillating between being slower than the wind and faster than the wind. Just a thought. Would a heaver vehicle change the rate of speed oscillation? just some thoughts.
--- End quote ---
There are two very different version of Blackbird.
One is for direct downwind faster than wind and that will use relatively large energy storage capacity the pressure differential that propeller creates so vehicle will use that energy to accelerate well above wind speed for many seconds even a few minutes then when stored energy is used up the vehicle will slowly decelerate as it is using up the stored kinetic energy and will slow down for some other minutes depending on amount of friction losses untill it gets well below wind speed.
The experiments done where all only a few seconds and ended just before stored energy was used up.
The wind is super variable in real plus the large black bird has propeller with adjustable pitch angle so the data from that is fairly useless.
But the treadmill model is fairly easy to prove since it is inside so zero wind speed and while the model is kept with the hand on treadmill the energy storage is being charged (pressure differential created on each side of the propeller) and when released the energy starts to be used up so if a video from the side is made you can see how the vehicle acceleration rate drops as the stored energy is being used up but the treadmill is way to short and so the experiment can not be done until vehicle uses all stored energy maybe a minute or two and starts to move backwards.
For the direct upwind model yes you can see that vehicle is slower and faster a few times a second. In that case the energy storage is in part of the vehicle like the belt or tiers or even chain and is a very small amount of stored energy so typically only good for a fraction of a second and is best observed with a high speed camera.
But I already showed that effect with my toy car in the video. The second part of the video talks just about direct upwind vehicle.
The two direct upwind and direct down wind use a very different energy storage so they work different in that sense.
For example you can not have a wheels only analog of direct downwind just an analog of direct upwind because air is compressible and so to emulate that you will need to have one wheel on a super stretchy road to store energy in that.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: AnalogueLove1867 on July 05, 2022, 06:03:02 am ---
With your explanation of the blackbird faster-than-wind mechanism. Could you test it by monitoring the speed of the vehicle and the air pressure behind the propeller?
Since the vehicle should be oscillating between being slower than the wind and faster than the wind. Just a thought. Would a heaver vehicle change the rate of speed oscillation? just some thoughts.
--- End quote ---
Direct downwind vehicle will have an oscillation every few minutes meaning it takes say 2 or 3 minutes to get to top speed can be 2x or 3x the wind speed and then another few minutes for the speed to drop from that top speed to below wind speed then the cycle can be repeated.
The completely different direct upwind uses very small energy storage capacity that is charged and discharged in a few milliseconds.
Below is an example of direct upwind or direct uppaper road :) and the energy is stored in the belt connecting the generator wheels to the motor wheels.
It is slowed down high speed video else with naked eye may be harder to see if at all in case of stiffer belt or chain. Chain will use gravitational energy storage as the weight of the chain will store the energy as top part of the chain is lifted when tensioned.
https://odysee.com/@dacustemp:8/wheel-cart-energy-storage-slow:8
PlainName:
Since you're still erroneously pushing the false 'energy storage' thing, so:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 03, 2022, 10:55:18 pm ---
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 03, 2022, 10:23:27 pm ---
That's assuming a sail or similar, isn't it?
--- End quote ---
The equation I wrote a few post earlier for a direct downwind vehicle applies to all vehicle designs.
You likely are confusing power with energy.
--- End quote ---
The equation you wrote gives the amount of power for some given sail area, right? By itself it is meaningless because you don't know how much power is needed to push the vehicle along. The entirety of your theory is that at windspeed the power available is zero, and for a sail type that would be true. But it ISN'T a sail type - it is a propeller.
As I pointed out, if it is rotating there is thrust, and when the vehicle is at wind speed that thrust is still pushing. The big question is how slow the wind speed can be be (relative to the vehicle) before the thrust from the prop fails to have an effect.
Your equation doesn't go anywhere near answering that. It is just considering one part of the problem to be solved, not the entirety. If you're relying on that equation to prove your theory then you are fooling yourself.
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