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Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other??

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electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Naej on July 12, 2022, 08:49:45 am ---
Nah you need electric potential.
And you can get a good approximation of a potential difference with a voltmeter.
If you want to know the power you have to multiply by the current.  ;)

--- End quote ---

You probably did not understand my question.
If you want to claim that energy from battery to load doesn't travel through wire you will need to:
-either say that c) the definition of electrical current everyone agrees with is false.
-or you need to prove that there are electrons traveling outside the wire from the battery directly to the lamp.

Since if there are no electrons fling trough that 1m gap of air then electric current is zero through that gap thus the electric power is zero and electric energy obviously zero.
So to prove your point you will need to disagree with one of those 3 points I made and nothing else is needed.
 
   

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Alex Eisenhut on July 12, 2022, 05:43:47 pm ---
And what you are ignoring is the wind from the propeller pushing backwards.

Quick! What is 2 - (-2)?

--- End quote ---

What you call "wind from the propeller" is stored energy in pressure differential.
If you replace air (compressible fluid) with water (non compressible fluid) then there will be no pushing back since your entire power comes from the water current.

Put in the simplest form is this diagram below. So you explain how this vehicle can move from left to right without involving energy storage.
This is the equivalent of direct upwind as you can not have a wheels only equivalent of direct downwind faster than wind.
If pressure differential energy storage was not needed then you could demonstrate a direct downwind version of the vehicle using only wheels on solid surfaces.  Derek even showed a version with wheels in his video claiming to be direct downwind faster than wind equivalent when it was in fact direct upwind and he confused input with output of that vehicle.



and what is 2-(-2) ? meant to mean.
You have wind speed - vehicle speed so you have 2-1 when below wind speed 2-2 when vehicle speed equal wind speed and 2-3 when vehicle sped higher than wind speed.
You only have 2-(-2) for a direct upwind vehicle where the vehicle speed and wind speed will add up this way.

Naej:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 12, 2022, 05:39:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: Naej on July 12, 2022, 08:47:25 am ---Nah I don't think you understand the size of the atmosphere.
So the equivalent problem is: given a capacitor with 1GF (gigafarad), charged at 20V how do you get 200W during 3 minutes, for example  200V-1A.
And of course you can use energy storage, much like Blackbird uses energy storage: moving parts (wheels, propeller, gear), moving car.

--- End quote ---

During those 2 or 3 minutes that Blackbird accelerated to 13m/s it required around 7Wh maybe with friction say round to 10Wh
The commercially available 2.7V 3000F capacitors hold about 3Wh so 4 of those in series will be 750F at 10.8V and contain when fully charged 12Wh sufficient to do exactly what Blackbird has done in that speed record test.
The main problem that you ignore is that there wind no wind power available to vehicle when direct downwind at speed equal or higher than wind.
During that period vehicle is accelerated by stored energy.

--- End quote ---
Nah there's plenty of energy available in wind. You know, 1/2*m*v^2 is rarely equal to 0.

PlainName:

--- Quote ---So you explain how this vehicle can move from left to right without involving energy storage.
--- End quote ---

You made a video showing it working. You say it's energy storage rather than friction that makes it jerk but, and this is what you are ignoring even though you actually made it happen, the vehicle moved to the right. At no point did it move left. It would keep moving right as long as you pulled the paper, jerking or not.

Your energy storage fetish is just covering up the fact that the model worked as predicted, as you proved.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Naej on July 12, 2022, 07:38:38 pm ---Nah there's plenty of energy available in wind. You know, 1/2*m*v^2 is rarely equal to 0.

--- End quote ---

You get that the air molecules can no longer hit the vehicle when both the vehicle and air molecules have the same speed in the same direction.
Even your wrong wind power equation agrees with that statement.
But since you think over 100% efficiency is possible and think that you get more propulsion power than braking power at the wheels is hard to have a rational discussion.
Until you recognise that above 100% efficiency is not possible. I'm just wasting my time.

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