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Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other??

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electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Naej on July 12, 2022, 10:25:17 pm ---
You forgot about the balls and their energy.  :-DD

--- End quote ---

I did not. You forgot that energy is useful to you when they move in the direction you want to move.
So their energy is useful to direct downwind vehicle only  when vehicle moves slower than the balls. When vehicle moves faster it is counterproductive unless what you want is to slow down. 

Naej:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 12, 2022, 10:33:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: Naej on July 12, 2022, 10:25:17 pm ---
You forgot about the balls and their energy.  :-DD

--- End quote ---

I did not. You forgot that energy is useful to you when they move in the direction you want to move.
So their energy is useful to direct downwind vehicle only  when vehicle moves slower than the balls. When vehicle moves faster it is counterproductive unless what you want is to slow down.

--- End quote ---
I'm sorry where did you see in the first principle of thermodynamics that you should only count energy moving in some direction?
I can't see it  :-//

So let's say your ball has a mass of one ton, moving at 10 m/s. There is a collision with a bat, with 2J of energy (your number).
Compute the recoil, i.e. the momentum change of the bat.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Naej on July 12, 2022, 10:40:42 pm ---I'm sorry where did you see in the first principle of thermodynamics that you should only count energy moving in some direction?
I can't see it  :-//

So let's say your ball has a mass of one ton, moving at 10 m/s. There is a collision with a bat, with 2J of energy (your number).
Compute the recoil, i.e. the momentum change of the bat.

--- End quote ---

I do not think I asked you about aphantasia.

Can you visualize the difference between when the ball moves in the direction of travel and when it moves in the opposite direction ?
If you are in that vehicle looking out at balls traveling at 10m/s
when vehicle is at 5m/s you will see balls coming from the back of your vehicle and moving past your vehicle at around 5m/s so all you need to do is still the bat out and the ball will hit it providing you with energy to increase vehicle speed.
When vehicle is at 15m/s then you see balls moving in the opposite direction so come from the front of your vehicle and move backward so if you stick out the bat and ball hits it it will slow your vehicle down.
You will need to prepare to swing that bat at high speed to heat that vehicle after it just passed the vehicle and so you need quite some energy to hit that ball in order to accelerate your vehicle. So much energy that even at 100% efficiency it will be barely equal with the amount of energy you lost by braking the vehicle.

Hope you can see the difference between a ball coming from the back of the vehicle at 5m/s and one coming from the front of vehicle at 5m/s
They both have equal speed and mass but the direction of travel is different thus one is positive and the other is negative. One can accelerate the vehicle and the other can slow down the vehicle by the same amount.

Naej:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 12, 2022, 10:57:42 pm ---
--- Quote from: Naej on July 12, 2022, 10:40:42 pm ---I'm sorry where did you see in the first principle of thermodynamics that you should only count energy moving in some direction?
I can't see it  :-//

So let's say your ball has a mass of one ton, moving at 10 m/s. There is a collision with a bat, with 2J of energy (your number).
Compute the recoil, i.e. the momentum change of the bat.

--- End quote ---

I do not think I asked you about aphantasia.

Can you visualize the difference between when the ball moves in the direction of travel and when it moves in the opposite direction ?
If you are in that vehicle looking out at balls traveling at 10m/s
when vehicle is at 5m/s you will see balls coming from the back of your vehicle and moving past your vehicle at around 5m/s so all you need to do is still the bat out and the ball will hit it providing you with energy to increase vehicle speed.
When vehicle is at 15m/s then you see balls moving in the opposite direction so come from the front of your vehicle and move backward so if you stick out the bat and ball hits it it will slow your vehicle down.
You will need to prepare to swing that bat at high speed to heat that vehicle after it just passed the vehicle and so you need quite some energy to hit that ball in order to accelerate your vehicle. So much energy that even at 100% efficiency it will be barely equal with the amount of energy you lost by braking the vehicle.

Hope you can see the difference between a ball coming from the back of the vehicle at 5m/s and one coming from the front of vehicle at 5m/s
They both have equal speed and mass but the direction of travel is different thus one is positive and the other is negative. One can accelerate the vehicle and the other can slow down the vehicle by the same amount.

--- End quote ---
Yes the ball is coming from the front of the vehicle.
And you accelerate it with your bat. Because you use recoil.
Now compute the recoil with a 2J bat and a 1t ball.
It's easy, just use the conservation of momentum.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Naej on July 12, 2022, 11:10:01 pm ---Yes the ball is coming from the front of the vehicle.
And you accelerate it with your bat. Because you use recoil.
Now compute the recoil with a 2J bat and a 1t ball.

--- End quote ---

OK, I guess we can get closer.
The bat weight means nothing as it is part of the vehicle total weight.
The 2J is energy I like to refer to it as 2Ws (2 Watt for one second or 1W for 2 seconds or any other combination).
In order to supply your batt with 2J you need to take 2J at the wheel and that will be subtracted from the vehicle kinetic energy meaning vehicle will have slightly lower speed after you take those 2J at the wheel.

So 2J is all you get best case (ideal) in terms of propulsion from your bat.

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