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| Alex Eisenhut:
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| Naej:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 15, 2022, 12:41:32 am --- --- Quote from: Naej on July 15, 2022, 12:09:30 am ---Yes you got it! Brake force of 6.66N, and accelerating force 20N so the vehicle accelerates! Or do you disagree with Newton's law too? --- End quote --- Not sure you read fully what I wrote. is 6.66N against the ground with vehicle relative to that drives at 15m/s and is 20N applied against a surface that moves at just 5m/s relative to vehicle. So vehicle will not accelerate as there are 100W and same 100W out. Is ideal case so it will maintain the same speed else it will slow down with this conditions. If it was 6.66N brake against ground and 20N to accelerate against ground then it will accelerate but 20N at 15m/s is 300W and so you need some stored energy to add the missing 200W. --- End quote --- Yes now you understand that it accelerates with 20-6.66N. Good. Now look at what Newton's 2nd law says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Second |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Naej on July 15, 2022, 08:54:27 am ---Yes now you understand that it accelerates with 20-6.66N. Good. Now look at what Newton's 2nd law says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Second --- End quote --- OK so you want to look at this with vehicle body as reference. See the 3 examples below and let me know if you think any of the equations are wrong. |
| Naej:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 15, 2022, 02:45:32 pm --- --- Quote from: Naej on July 15, 2022, 08:54:27 am ---Yes now you understand that it accelerates with 20-6.66N. Good. Now look at what Newton's 2nd law says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Second --- End quote --- OK so you want to look at this with vehicle body as reference. See the 3 examples below and let me know if you think any of the equations are wrong. --- End quote --- Not sure what you're trying to do here in these 3 different situations, but it looks like you understand the vehicle can go as fast as it wants, and that COP can be >1. :-+ :phew: |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Naej on July 15, 2022, 10:59:25 pm --- --- Quote from: electrodacus on July 15, 2022, 02:45:32 pm --- --- Quote from: Naej on July 15, 2022, 08:54:27 am ---Yes now you understand that it accelerates with 20-6.66N. Good. Now look at what Newton's 2nd law says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion#Second --- End quote --- OK so you want to look at this with vehicle body as reference. See the 3 examples below and let me know if you think any of the equations are wrong. --- End quote --- Not sure what you're trying to do here in these 3 different situations, but it looks like you understand the vehicle can go as fast as it wants, and that COP can be >1. :-+ :phew: --- End quote --- In all those 3 cases wind speed is 6m/s that is emulated by the Wind treadmill. The vehicle speed is emulated by the road treadmill. Case: A) vehicle speed is 2m/s so lower than wind speed and the wind speed relative to vehicle will be 4m/s B) vehicle speed equals wind speed so 6m/s that means wind speed relative to vehicle is 0m/s C) vehicle speed higher than wind speed at 10m/s and it this conditions vehicle can not accelerate forward. So unless you think I used the wrong equations the 3 cases show A) vehicle can accelerate forward when vehicle speed is below wind speed B) vehicle can ideal case just stay at wind speed and C) vehicle can only slow down/decelerate. This is basically the equivalent of the treadmill propeller model with the exception that propeller was replaced by a wheel M and the wind treadmill is there to be able to control the equivalent of wind speed. Obviously when wind speed is zero as it was in the indoor treadmill example the version with wheel will not be able to move forward as the pressure differential energy storage is missing (air and propeller are out of the equation). |
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