General > General Technical Chat
Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other??
cbutlera:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 16, 2022, 10:07:01 pm ---As you claim to understand please share the results of the 3 examples. If you can not do that you can not claim to understand.
--- End quote ---
I have already done that in my earlier message, to which you replied and which then prompted me to write the message that you quote. I see no point in going around in circles. I also couldn't care less whether you think that I understand the physics.
I have spent a little time trying to understand the model of the universe that you are using, and I think that do understand it. You need to spend some time trying to understand the model that I and others are using. It doesn't matter whether you think it is right or wrong, that doesn't stop you understanding it. Galileo wasn't confused by the statements of those defending the Ptolemaic system. He fully understood both the Copernican and Ptolemaic systems and indeed wrote a dialogue concerning those two alternate systems. If I and many others are using the same model of the universe, then it must be easily comprehensible. So there should be nothing to stop you comprehending it too, regardless of whether it is right or wrong. Once you do understand it, you will be in a position to identify any material differences between the models. Then you can decide who you think is right.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Naej on July 16, 2022, 10:55:06 pm ---So there is an equal and opposite force, but the total force is not equal to 0. Well. What are these ghost forces then?
--- End quote ---
From the treadmill.
--- Quote from: Naej on July 16, 2022, 10:55:06 pm ---Are you sure? What is the kinetic energy after a power of -4W during 1s? It should be -4J, with an imaginary speed I guess.
--- End quote ---
It is negative yes because the vehicle moves in a different direction.
Obviously the vehicle can never get above wind speed powered by wind so some other energy like stored energy will have got the vehicle there.
If vehicle will have traveled at 10m/s instead of this treadmill theoretical discussion then it will have had some significant kinetic energy from witch 4J will have been subtracted after one second with 4W deceleration.
How do you distinguish between 4J you put in to a rechargeable battery or capacitor and 4J you take out of that. You will need to use a negative sign for one of them and it can be your choice for with one you do that.
I could have said -20W for A and +4W for C and still be correct but it seems more logical to have +20W for a vehicle moving in the desigered direction and -4W for one that slows down or moves into opposite direction.
Of course -4J sounds ridiculous for a vehicle at rest with no energy to take out of the negative sign is to show the direction that vehicle is moving as it is stationary in this example.
I only made the vehicle stationary as it seems most people can more easily understand what happens to a stationary vehicle than a moving one especially when it moves at different speeds relative to multiple mediums.
So case C) the vehicle with 10kg weight driving at 10m/s will have had 500J of stored kinetic energy thus one 4J will not have had much of an impact it will have been now at 496J so lower speed.
It just shows that case C is not possible without something else involved like pressure differential energy storage
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: cbutlera on July 16, 2022, 11:09:12 pm ---
I have already done that in my earlier message, to which you replied and which then prompted me to write the message that you quote. I see no point in going around in circles. I also couldn't care less whether you think that I understand the physics.
I have spent a little time trying to understand the model of the universe that you are using, and I think that do understand it. You need to spend some time trying to understand the model that I and others are using. It doesn't matter whether you think it is right or wrong, that doesn't stop you understanding it. Galileo wasn't confused by the statements of those defending the Ptolemaic system. He fully understood both the Copernican and Ptolemaic systems and indeed wrote a dialogue concerning those two alternate systems. If I and many others are using the same model of the universe, then it must be easily comprehensible. So there should be nothing to stop you comprehending it too, regardless of whether it is right or wrong. Once you do understand it, you will be in a position to identify any material differences between the models. Then you can decide who you think is right.
--- End quote ---
You mean the message you left today before this one ?
I read that fully and I fail to see where your answer is.
Result should be in international units so I expect Watt or Newton and direction the vehicle will move accelerated by whatever units you chose.
It doesn't matter your method of solving the problem as long as the results are matching the reality (real word tests).
I seen no discrepancy between my results and real test results.
Naej:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 16, 2022, 11:11:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: Naej on July 16, 2022, 10:55:06 pm ---So there is an equal and opposite force, but the total force is not equal to 0. Well. What are these ghost forces then?
--- End quote ---
From the treadmill.
--- End quote ---
What are all the forces on the vehicle?
Did you read Newton's second law?
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 16, 2022, 11:11:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: Naej on July 16, 2022, 10:55:06 pm ---Are you sure? What is the kinetic energy after a power of -4W during 1s? It should be -4J, with an imaginary speed I guess.
--- End quote ---
It is negative yes because the vehicle moves in a different direction.
Obviously the vehicle can never get above wind speed powered by wind so some other energy like stored energy will have got the vehicle there.
If vehicle will have traveled at 10m/s instead of this treadmill theoretical discussion then it will have had some significant kinetic energy from witch 4J will have been subtracted after one second with 4W deceleration.
How do you distinguish between 4J you put in to a rechargeable battery or capacitor and 4J you take out of that. You will need to use a negative sign for one of them and it can be your choice for with one you do that.
I could have said -20W for A and +4W for C and still be correct but it seems more logical to have +20W for a vehicle moving in the desigered direction and -4W for one that slows down or moves into opposite direction.
Of course -4J sounds ridiculous for a vehicle at rest with no energy to take out of the negative sign is to show the direction that vehicle is moving as it is stationary in this example.
I only made the vehicle stationary as it seems most people can more easily understand what happens to a stationary vehicle than a moving one especially when it moves at different speeds relative to multiple mediums.
So case C) the vehicle with 10kg weight driving at 10m/s will have had 500J of stored kinetic energy thus one 4J will not have had much of an impact it will have been now at 496J so lower speed.
It just shows that case C is not possible without something else involved like pressure differential energy storage
--- End quote ---
The kinetic energy is 1/2*m*v². For this to be negative, the car would have to go not in a "different direction" but in an imaginary one.
In the real world, kinetic energy is positive.
Maybe do this easy exercise. A man is on a car travelling at 10 m/s (total mass=1000kg, no friction no engine). He pushes on a 1kg ball forward during 1s with 5N.
What's the speed of everything after, and what are the kinetic energies? And the powers?
SiliconWizard:
I didn't really get past wheels of a single vehicle going at different speeds in a straight line. My idea of what would, or would not happen seems to have been shattered.
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