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Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other??

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Naej:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 18, 2022, 12:38:07 am ---
--- Quote from: Naej on July 18, 2022, 12:26:24 am ---Who talked about "bumping"? Only you.
You just need to disconnect wires with the slower vehicle and connect them to the next one, also slower but in front of you.

What is the kinetic energy of truck A and truck B after the maneuver, which put the battery level back to its original position?
Is truck B faster than it used to be, and truck A slower?
(Remember that a bike accelerated on truck A and Newton's third law)

--- End quote ---
What are the wires equivalent on blackbird ?

The blackbird will need to slow down well below wind speed to recharge and be able to exceed wind speed for another few minutes.
There is no other vehicle going below wind speed to collect wind energy so that it can deliver to blackbird.

--- End quote ---
The first example was only designed to make you understand it's possible to transfer kinetic energy from slow to fast objects.
While you insisted that the power was negative, which is true I guess, in a way, but also irrelevant.

Now answer to this. After all, you saw through the lies of everyone about Blackbird, so you should be able to do this simple exercise.
What is the kinetic energy of truck A and truck B after the maneuver, which put the battery level back to its original position?
Is truck B faster than it used to be, and truck A slower?
(Remember that a bike accelerated on truck A and Newton's third law)

Naej:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 18, 2022, 04:07:06 am ---No, it is the electromagnetic field interactions between those charge carriers where the energy is.  We just cannot extract it directly, so we use the flow of the charge carriers, which we can exploit easily.

--- End quote ---
Or is it in the potential energy of the charge carriers?  >:D

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 18, 2022, 04:07:06 am ---While we say current flows in even such a coaxial cable, in reality, in any cross section not at the ends of the cable, most of the energy is in the EM field between the two.

--- End quote ---
Are you sure?  >:D
What's the difference between "in reality" and "the energy flows in the copper"?

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: Naej on July 18, 2022, 08:58:33 am ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 18, 2022, 04:07:06 am ---No, it is the electromagnetic field interactions between those charge carriers where the energy is.  We just cannot extract it directly, so we use the flow of the charge carriers, which we can exploit easily.

--- End quote ---
Or is it in the potential energy of the charge carriers?
--- End quote ---
Potential energy of the charge carriers includes the potential energy in the field interactions, of course.


--- Quote from: Naej on July 18, 2022, 08:58:33 am ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 18, 2022, 04:07:06 am ---While we say current flows in even such a coaxial cable, in reality, in any cross section not at the ends of the cable, most of the energy is in the EM field between the two.

--- End quote ---
Are you sure?
--- End quote ---
In the coaxial cable I described, yes.  Unless we're talking high enough energies that will destroy the dielectric insulator in between, or if vacuum, cause thermal electrons to be emitted from the surface and thus arcing of some sort, or something like that.

I could be horribly mistaken in my understanding of electrodynamics and matter, too, of course; but I don't think so.


--- Quote from: Naej on July 18, 2022, 08:58:33 am ---What's the difference between "in reality" and "the energy flows in the copper"?
--- End quote ---
In that the properties of the dielectric (insulator) and the geometry of the coaxial cable affect the energy transfer capabilities of the coaxial cable more than the core conductor does.

m k:
It's still path integrals all around or the center of the core can be removed.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Naej on July 18, 2022, 08:53:19 am ---The first example was only designed to make you understand it's possible to transfer kinetic energy from slow to fast objects.
While you insisted that the power was negative, which is true I guess, in a way, but also irrelevant.


--- End quote ---

All you have is air molecules Nitrogen and Oxygen mostly traveling in a specific direction at some speed and the vehicle traveling in same direction pushed by the air molecules.
There is no equivalent of the bicycle or electric cable between them.

What people fail to take in to account is the fact that air as any other gas is compressible so you can have more molecules in the same space.
A propeller used as a fan will create a pressure differential around with a higher than atmospheric pressure volume on one side and a lower than atmospheric pressure volume on the opposite side.
To create this pressure differential energy is needed and that is provided by wind as vehicle speed is well below wind speed. As this pressure differential is increased it will get to the point where it will have the majority contribution to vehicle acceleration still vehicle below wind speed and so by the time vehicle gets to wind speed there is still a pressure differential (you can call this artificially created wind) that has limited amount of energy due to limited volumes of air at different pressure.
The "natural" wind is the same and has limited amount of energy to provide but the volumes of air at different pressure are huge in comparison with what propeller managed to create and the "natural" wind is supplied by sun so it is a form of solar power (thus you always have wind somewhere due to unequal heating of earth by the sun).
All that is needed for this not not work is replace air with a non compressible fluid or use solids so that energy can no longer be stored. That is why a vehicle with wheels only (so replace the propeller with a wheel) can not demonstrate output speed higher than input.
Unless as Derek has done you confuse input with output.

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