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Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other??
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 19, 2022, 04:11:22 am ---
I already explained how this wheeled vehicle will move to the right when the treadmill moves to the left. It can't move any other way because of the connection of the wheels by the belt. For the car to move to the left would require both wheels to turn counter clockwise. There is no force acting to make that happen.
What more do you need???
The forces will balance when the car is not accelerating. In steady state, the net forces on the car will be zero. If we imagine there are no losses, the forces will not be balanced and the car will accelerate to the right because F2 > F1 in magnitude.
Maybe you don't understand that the only part of this that determines the movement of the car, is the left wheel rotation, which will be clockwise, same as the right hand wheel, as propelled by the treadmill.
You seem to be really, really bad at understanding which parts of a design are relevant and which are not.
--- End quote ---
In real world wheels are allowed to slip.
F2 can not be higher than F1. The F2 only exist because of F1.
It is also very hard to get rid of energy storage in real life.
I already shown (video) and described what happens and why the vehicle can move to the right.
The front wheel moves while back wheel is not. That means the belt is stretched so energy is stored as elastic potential energy.
All forces F1=F2 and F3=F4 increase until front wheel will slip (just for a fraction of a second) and that is enough to allow vehicle to move to the right powered by the stored elastic energy.
If you eliminate the energy storage then the forces F1 and F2 will be instantly high but equal and they will be limited to whatever is needed for the wheel to slip. The vehicle will not move but there will be friction so energy lost as heat.
Pout (back wheel) can not be higher than Pin (wheel on the treadmill) not without any energy storage.
There is nothing wrong with my setup is just done so that what happens is much more visible https://odysee.com/@dacustemp:8/wheel-cart-energy-storage-slow:8
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 19, 2022, 04:47:37 am ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 19, 2022, 04:11:22 am ---
I already explained how this wheeled vehicle will move to the right when the treadmill moves to the left. It can't move any other way because of the connection of the wheels by the belt. For the car to move to the left would require both wheels to turn counter clockwise. There is no force acting to make that happen.
What more do you need???
The forces will balance when the car is not accelerating. In steady state, the net forces on the car will be zero. If we imagine there are no losses, the forces will not be balanced and the car will accelerate to the right because F2 > F1 in magnitude.
Maybe you don't understand that the only part of this that determines the movement of the car, is the left wheel rotation, which will be clockwise, same as the right hand wheel, as propelled by the treadmill.
You seem to be really, really bad at understanding which parts of a design are relevant and which are not.
--- End quote ---
In real world wheels are allowed to slip.
F2 can not be higher than F1. The F2 only exist because of F1.
It is also very hard to get rid of energy storage in real life.
I already shown (video) and described what happens and why the vehicle can move to the right.
The front wheel moves while back wheel is not. That means the belt is stretched so energy is stored as elastic potential energy.
All forces F1=F2 and F3=F4 increase until front wheel will slip (just for a fraction of a second) and that is enough to allow vehicle to move to the right powered by the stored elastic energy.
If you eliminate the energy storage then the forces F1 and F2 will be instantly high but equal and they will be limited to whatever is needed for the wheel to slip. The vehicle will not move but there will be friction so energy lost as heat.
Pout (back wheel) can not be higher than Pin (wheel on the treadmill) not without any energy storage.
There is nothing wrong with my setup is just done so that what happens is much more visible https://odysee.com/@dacustemp:8/wheel-cart-energy-storage-slow:8
--- End quote ---
Blah, blah, blah, energy storage, cold fusion, UFOs and ghosts. Total and complete BS!
You know nothing of physics or mechanics and just make up whatever appears in your mind, to treat it as fact.
You are either the biggest idiot in the world, or the biggest troll. Your fantasy of forces means nothing, because you don't understand them. Bottom line is the wheels move as I described, which makes the car move to the right as the treadmill moves to the left.
You are an idiot, inside a moron, wrapped up in an ignoramus.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 19, 2022, 06:36:45 am ---Blah, blah, blah, energy storage, cold fusion, UFOs and ghosts. Total and complete BS!
You know nothing of physics or mechanics and just make up whatever appears in your mind, to treat it as fact.
You are either the biggest idiot in the world, or the biggest troll. Your fantasy of forces means nothing, because you don't understand them. Bottom line is the wheels move as I described, which makes the car move to the right as the treadmill moves to the left.
You are an idiot, inside a moron, wrapped up in an ignoramus.
--- End quote ---
Guessing that vehicle moves to the right doesn't mean you understand why.
A better guess will be that vehicle is not moving at all or move to the left if you ignore the effects of energy storage
Here is what happens if you reduce traction to back wheels so that front wheels can not slip first and allow the stored energy to discharge
https://odysee.com/@dacustemp:8/stick-slip-removed-from-front-wheels:0
I can not eliminate the energy storage but by eliminating slip at front wheel the vehicle can no longer move to the right.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 19, 2022, 03:03:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 19, 2022, 06:36:45 am ---Blah, blah, blah, energy storage, cold fusion, UFOs and ghosts. Total and complete BS!
You know nothing of physics or mechanics and just make up whatever appears in your mind, to treat it as fact.
You are either the biggest idiot in the world, or the biggest troll. Your fantasy of forces means nothing, because you don't understand them. Bottom line is the wheels move as I described, which makes the car move to the right as the treadmill moves to the left.
You are an idiot, inside a moron, wrapped up in an ignoramus.
--- End quote ---
Guessing that vehicle moves to the right doesn't mean you understand why.
A better guess will be that vehicle is not moving at all or move to the left if you ignore the effects of energy storage
Here is what happens if you reduce traction to back wheels so that front wheels can not slip first and allow the stored energy to discharge
https://odysee.com/@dacustemp:8/stick-slip-removed-from-front-wheels:0
I can not eliminate the energy storage but by eliminating slip at front wheel the vehicle can no longer move to the right.
--- End quote ---
Why the vehicle moves to the right is very, very simple. The treadmill pushes to the left. The only two possibilities are for the car to go to the right which would be essentially upwind (against the treadmill), or to the left, which would be downwind, faster than the wind (with the treadmill).
You only need to understand simple mechanics to realize the force on F2 will be greater than the force on F1 due to the leverage of the mechanism. So the car will accelerate to the right at an ever increasing speed until dissipative forces equal the imbalance.
Change the gearing so F2 is smaller than F1 and the car will go downwind faster than the wind... i.e. turn the car around. This is what they did with the Blackbird, by tweaking the pitch of the prop.
You either can't understand the simplicity due to some mental disorder, or you still wish to troll forever and ever.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 19, 2022, 05:50:41 pm ---
Why the vehicle moves to the right is very, very simple. The treadmill pushes to the left. The only two possibilities are for the car to go to the right which would be essentially upwind (against the treadmill), or to the left, which would be downwind, faster than the wind (with the treadmill).
You only need to understand simple mechanics to realize the force on F2 will be greater than the force on F1 due to the leverage of the mechanism. So the car will accelerate to the right at an ever increasing speed until dissipative forces equal the imbalance.
Change the gearing so F2 is smaller than F1 and the car will go downwind faster than the wind... i.e. turn the car around. This is what they did with the Blackbird, by tweaking the pitch of the prop.
You either can't understand the simplicity due to some mental disorder, or you still wish to troll forever and ever.
--- End quote ---
:) "very, very simple"
This vehicle is a locked gearbox as demonstrated in the video linked last and also clearly seen from the diagram showing the forces acting on vehicle.
If you eliminate the energy storage or the slip on the front wheel vehicle will be dragged in the direction that treadmill moves (clearly shown in the video).
Changing the gearing as you mention will do nothing as you have the exact same vehicle rotated 180 degree and all you do is move the generator wheel (the one with smaller pulley) on the fixed surface.
The small pulley will always be the input so the same thing will happen.
Vehicle is locked until force is large enough so that generator wheel the one with small pulley slips then stored energy allows the motor wheel the one with large pulley to move the vehicle.
This are facts and demonstrated in real world tests.
So no matter if you flip the vehicle around or not this is always the same vehicle and the equivalent of the direct upwind version.
You can look at it as a direct down wind if you only consider that small few millisecond cycle where energy is stored and the vehicle is accelerated for maybe 100ms
In any case you are very confused regarding the reasons this vehicle moves and prefer no to think and just say all is "very,very simple" and while it is simple it is completely different from what you are thinking.
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