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Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other??

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electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Naej on July 19, 2022, 11:33:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 19, 2022, 03:18:09 am ---Any force applied by the treadmill to the front wheel F1 will require an equal and opposite force at the back wheel F2.

--- End quote ---
Newton's 420th law of mechanics.

--- End quote ---

So you disagree with my statement that is basically Newton's 3'rd law ?
You can apply 5N on the front wheel if back wheel slips at 4N as that extra 1N can be from accelerating the vehicle backwards.
But if you want that vehicle to move forward the front wheel will need to slip and there is a hysteresis between the wheel when it sticks to surface and when it starts to slip.  This stick slip hysteresis is what allows the charged energy (belt elasticity but can be many other things it will work with many other mechanisms not just belts) to be discharged then charged again.

Naej:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 19, 2022, 11:42:33 pm ---
--- Quote from: Naej on July 19, 2022, 11:33:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 19, 2022, 03:18:09 am ---Any force applied by the treadmill to the front wheel F1 will require an equal and opposite force at the back wheel F2.

--- End quote ---
Newton's 420th law of mechanics.

--- End quote ---
So you disagree with my statement that is basically Newton's 3'rd law ?

--- End quote ---
Do you know what Newton's third law is?

Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: Naej on July 19, 2022, 11:32:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 18, 2022, 10:57:48 am ---
--- Quote from: Naej on July 18, 2022, 08:58:33 am ---What's the difference between "in reality" and "the energy flows in the copper"?
--- End quote ---
In that the properties of the dielectric (insulator) and the geometry of the coaxial cable affect the energy transfer capabilities of the coaxial cable more than the core conductor does.

--- End quote ---
Really? If you replace the core by some plastic, what happens?

--- End quote ---
It becomes a wave guide.  It is only practical at microwave ranges, because in the absence of a conductive core, the dielectric absorbs the energy in the EM field at most frequencies; and the characteristics of the outer "ground" become absolutely crucial, as full reflectance is needed for a viable waveguide.  (We are talking about alternating currents here, after all; since as I already wrote earlier, for direct current, the energy does indeed flow in the conductor.)

More interesting is to examine what happens when you have flaws, say a short break, in the core conductor.  If "the energy flows in the copper", then even a micrometer wide break in the core conductor would stop the energy flow, wouldn't it?  It doesn't (for AC; it would if this was steady-state DC).  It does cause all sorts of reflections and whatnot in AC, but a large fraction of the energy still flows.

This is an excellent example of why it is the geometry and not just the conductor that matters.  It is silly to even attempt to say where the energy flows, unless we exactly specify the geometry of the system we're talking about, since it really does vary from system to system.  The movement of charge carriers, current, is just the easiest way we can exploit the energy flow, make it do useful work; but it isn't exactly how the energy is always transferred within the system.  Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't: it depends exactly on the geometry/setup of the system.

Naej, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me and just directing the discussion using the Socratic method, asking genuine questions, or whether you have observed a flaw in my reasoning but are unwilling to point it out.  Would you mind telling me?  :)

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Naej on July 20, 2022, 12:43:08 am ---Do you know what Newton's third law is?

--- End quote ---

Yes. Do you know?

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 19, 2022, 10:51:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 19, 2022, 10:37:47 pm ---Of course the wheels can move.  I've already explained how they will move. 

Whatever.  You clearly do not want to conduct a reasonable experiment.  You are like Andrea Rossi demonstrating the e-Cat.

--- End quote ---

You will need to twist the belt (infinity symbol) for the wheels to move freely as it is it is a locked gearbox. In order to move in any direction as it is it will require for wheels to slip.
You realized that with your sail vehicle when you added another set of wheels to reverse the direction.

--- End quote ---

As I said, you don't understand the mechanics of the car at all.  Zero, nah-dah, zip, zilch. 

Sorry, please play again.

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