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| Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other?? |
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| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 20, 2022, 08:06:25 pm ---You keep saying it's a "locked gearbox" when it isn't. The wheels will spin easily if you pick it up and turn them. I don't know how you can not be a troll. Literally, NO ONE would say the stupid things you say. If I had the apparatus, I would be able to move the car with my hand, the wheel on the solid ground would turn because of the friction, making the other wheel turn, moving the treadmill. Easy, peasy. You clearly are either the stupidest person on Earth, or the world's biggest troll. Which is it? --- End quote --- You are blind to this. Vehicle only moves when you have wheel slip. Here is the image again. F1 pushes the vehicle to the left and F2 witch is equal pushes the vehicle to the right. Since F1 and F2 are equal vehicle can not move until either the front or back wheel slips. While you claim to understand Newton's 3'rd law I think you have the impression it does not apply here. The front wheel will want to rotate clockwise while the back wheel anti clockwise so it will try to stretch the belt (witch as I showed is what happens in a real test). The only reason you also see the belt contracting back is because the front wheel slip and so the reason the vehicle can move forward for a very short period of time. This stick slip will need to repeat and so is the charge and discharge of energy in the belt that moves the vehicle forward. I will appreciate those spectators eating popcorn to provide their opinion on this simple setup. |
| PlainName:
--- Quote ---I will appreciate those spectators eating popcorn to provide their opinion on this simple setup. --- End quote --- You are wrong. As he says, you're either stupid or trolling now. [Edit: maybe both] |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 20, 2022, 08:52:45 pm --- --- Quote ---I will appreciate those spectators eating popcorn to provide their opinion on this simple setup. --- End quote --- You are wrong. As he says, you're either stupid or trolling now. [Edit: maybe both] --- End quote --- So you also think that without any wheel slip the vehicle can move ? It will not make you stupid if you think that but it is a limitation that you have. |
| Nominal Animal:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 20, 2022, 06:44:51 pm ---You are confusing some things. --- End quote --- No, you're leaving important bits out, oversimplifying the situation to fit your axiomatic model. --- Quote from: electrodacus on July 20, 2022, 06:44:51 pm ---As soon as you close the switch the excess electrons from one plate will move in to wire which is neutrally charged and at the same time on the other plate electrons from the wire will migrate in to the plate with deficit of electrons. --- End quote --- "Will move". No, something makes them move. That something is an electric field, which propagates through the circuit somewhat analogously to a shock wave when the circuit is first connected. Also, some of the original "potential energy" is in the form of an electric field around the charged plate; it is not exactly correct to just lump it all into "potential energy" and call it good enough. When the circuit has stabilized, the electric field (potential difference along the circuit) has subsided to something small and stable, aside from thermal noise and such. This does not mean it was small and stable and insignificant at the violent beginning. --- Quote from: electrodacus on July 20, 2022, 06:44:51 pm ---While electron wave travels through wire --- End quote --- What electron wave? You need to specify that too, and not just give it a name and leave it at that. Giving a thing a name is not the same as describing the thing. Each individual electron is both a particle and a wave. When an electron is bound to an atom, it is delocalized in the shape described by spherical harmonics. When an electron is shared by a lattice (as they are in metal conductors), they are delocalized in various ways, and typically spread over or "shared" across multiple lattice atoms. If we describe electron locations by the center or centroid of their delocalized volume, they really do move very slowly, something like a meter a second or so, often even slower, while the current and changes in the current propagate at over half the speed of light, or over hundred million times faster. The electrons do not just push each other to move (as described in electrostatic approximation as the Coulomb force); they also interact via emitting and absorbing photons, and coupling to existing electromagnetic fields like the one caused by being matter not cooled to absolute zero. Note that this EM field is NOT just "radiating outwards"; there is always both emission and absorption. So, what you call "electron wave" is in reality a set of various possible interactions. The majority (i.e., which kind of interaction is the most common or involves the most energy flow) depends on the exact configuration of the system; its geometry. It is somewhat funny that the most complex phenomena occur when the circuit is first closed, regardless of the current being AC or DC. This case has always wavelike properties, and being non-equilibrium situation, you have all kinds of energy flows all over. Even if we assume a perfect switch, something that changes from 0 to 1 without any intermediate states in between, it still is a step-like pulse with a lot of higher frequency components, and thus definitely a wave. Ramping the current smoothly has a nicer spectrum, but a time-discontinuous signal always contain lots of frequencies. While the transmission line model does describe the observable voltages and currents at the ends of the line when the properties of the transmission line are known, it does not mean it is a complete picture of the interactions involved. The fact that the model is based on electromagnetic waves, should make it obvious that it is not just about electron kinematics, but electromagnetic field interactions must play a significant role, too. To explore the complete picture in a way consistent with our best understanding of physics, one needs to delve into quantum electrodynamics, which definitely belongs to the less intuitive section of physics. I definitely have no idea how to even start describing it in laymans terms. |
| PlainName:
--- Quote ---when the circuit is first closed, regardless of the current being AC or DC. --- End quote --- For a very brief moment, it's AC even when it's DC, isn't it? |
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