General > General Technical Chat
Electroboom: How Right IS Veritasium?! Don't Electrons Push Each Other??
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 20, 2022, 08:26:36 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 20, 2022, 08:06:25 pm ---You keep saying it's a "locked gearbox" when it isn't. The wheels will spin easily if you pick it up and turn them.
I don't know how you can not be a troll. Literally, NO ONE would say the stupid things you say.
If I had the apparatus, I would be able to move the car with my hand, the wheel on the solid ground would turn because of the friction, making the other wheel turn, moving the treadmill. Easy, peasy.
You clearly are either the stupidest person on Earth, or the world's biggest troll.
Which is it?
--- End quote ---
You are blind to this. Vehicle only moves when you have wheel slip.
Here is the image again.
--- End quote ---
I've seen it many times. I can draw it with my eyes closed.
--- Quote ---F1 pushes the vehicle to the left and F2 witch is equal pushes the vehicle to the right.
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This is how you misunderstand Newton's law. It does not connect F1 and F2 in any way at all. You will continue to fail physics class and possibly many others until you understand the law. Post the other picture you had with the guy pushing a wall or something. Then study the two cases until you see where the difference is. If you ever understand, it will feel like an amazing flash of insight! But, I'm not holding my breath.
--- Quote ---Since F1 and F2 are equal vehicle can not move until either the front or back wheel slips.
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Wrong!
--- Quote ---While you claim to understand Newton's 3'rd law I think you have the impression it does not apply here.
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Try talking to someone who actually understands physics and ask them if F1 and F2 are connected by Newton's third law of motion. Surprise!
--- Quote ---The front wheel will want to rotate clockwise while the back wheel anti clockwise so it will try to stretch the belt (witch as I showed is what happens in a real test).
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A failure of your equipment. Use gears.
--- Quote ---The only reason you also see the belt contracting back is because the front wheel slip and so the reason the vehicle can move forward for a very short period of time. This stick slip will need to repeat and so is the charge and discharge of energy in the belt that moves the vehicle forward.
I will appreciate those spectators eating popcorn to provide their opinion on this simple setup.
--- End quote ---
Maybe, just maybe, if you ever learn that Newtons third law does not apply to F1 vs. F2, then you might understand why the car will move to the right in your diagram. The movement of the wheels where F1 and F2 are shown, are related through the ratios of the wheels, pulleys and the connection of the belt. The forces are harder to calculate, but at equilibrium, with no friction, all these forces will be zero.
BTW, you need to stop using "front" and "back" until you explain which direction those refer to. Better yet, label it on the diagram or just stop using those terms.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 20, 2022, 09:09:27 pm ---No, you're leaving important bits out, oversimplifying the situation to fit your axiomatic model
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Is a charged capacitor just to metal plates separated by an "insulator" where one plates has excess of electrons and the other a deficit ?
And is a discharged capacitor just two metal plates with both plates with equal/neutral charge?
So the charged capacitor contains stored potential energy and the only difference is the two plates have a charge imbalance (basically more electrons on one side than the other).
Say this stored energy is 1J same as 1Ws
Now you have Derek's circuit except for the 1k Ohm resistor.
The wires/pipe will have a total of say 1Ohm but the left side about 21m total has 0.1Ohm and the right side is 0.9Ohm other than that wires have the same diameter and circuit is perfectly symmetric in all aspects.
If you are able to measure the magnetic and electric field around the wires do you think you will measure any difference between the two perfectly symmetrical half other than the resistance which will be different as mentioned ?
I promise you will not be able to see any difference in either magnetic field or electric field as both inductance and line capacitance will be the same on both halfs.
But while that is true 90% of the energy will be dissipated on the 0.9Ohm side while just 10% will be dissipated on the 0.1Ohm side.
Only the charged particle model can explain why that is the observed result of the experiment and not some model that says energy travels from charged capacitor outside wires.
Over time (much longer time) all the energy will be dissipated as infrared photons from the wires to the space around and much more from the 0.9Ohm side.
electrodacus:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 20, 2022, 10:05:10 pm ---I've seen it many times. I can draw it with my eyes closed.
--- End quote ---
I'm curious what you mean by that.
Can you draw that in your mind or on a piece of paper ?
If you can visualize that in your mind are you able to move one of the wheels and see how it affects the rest of the system ?
Maybe if you can imagine then imagine the wheels having spikes in the treadmill for the wheel on the right and in to the red box for the one on the left straight down.
This way wheels can not slip. Do you think anything can move now ?
The treadmill will just stall unless is powerful enough to break those spikes.
Newton 3'rd law applies to F1 and F2 the same way it applies to F3 and F4
Naej:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on July 20, 2022, 10:55:48 pm ---Newton 3'rd law applies to F1 and F2 the same way it applies to F3 and F4
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Sure, but what does it say?
Naej:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on July 20, 2022, 09:09:27 pm ---"Will move". No, something makes them move. That something is an electric field, which propagates through the circuit somewhat analogously to a shock wave when the circuit is first connected. Also, some of the original "potential energy" is in the form of an electric field around the charged plate; it is not exactly correct to just lump it all into "potential energy" and call it good enough.
--- End quote ---
Or maybe it is correct.
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