SpaceX Dragon V2

[rob77]

The Space Shuttle is what we got when we designed as system whereby everyone who worked on Apollo kept their job,

Well, not the worst idea. Hiring a bunch of pimply-faced youth with zero experience of actually bringing a man into space and back? Or keeping a bunch of experienced old hands who in fact did it? I think keeping the old hands is a reasonable idea. They already learned their expensive and sometime tragic lessons.

The early fully-reusable concepts had less throw, but were clearly much better, fully-reusable designs:  http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4221/ch8.htm

I think they also had constant interference from politics, messing with the budget and changing project priorities.

politics tends to screw-up everything i could imagine that guys at nasa got an order "do it different way that Russians do". so they combined their reusable concept with a heavy lifter and a space station, just to not have dedicated heavy lifters and a permanent space station on the orbit like the russians do 
so they ended up with the shuttle which was pretty versatile but inefficient.

The Russians didn't really plan it that way----they were going to build a Shuttle,but the costs got away from them.
They were then stuck with Soyuz,so had to "make the best of it"---& the "best" was very good,indeed!

NASA planned a "Mir-style" Space Station,after Skylab,but didn't get the funding.

The period of "Mir co-operation" with the USA was one of the few "win-win" situations in life,----the Russkis didn't have to build a Shuttle,& the USA didn't have to build their own Space Station,or a Soyuz equivalent.

During the ISS building stage,the Shuttle delivered a lot of awkward shaped components which didn't fit well into Soyuz.
In its own right,it operated as a base for many space experiments.

SpaceX should be able to produce something good.
After all,there have been 30-40 years of Technological progress since the design of the Shuttle & Soyuz .

But wait!----Dragon V2 has never flown.

The Shuttle & Soyuz have both been there & done that!

This guy's comments are interesting:-
 http://www.cnet.com/au/news/astronaut-musks-capsule-a-good-addition-to-soyuz-q-a/

actually the russian shuttle Buran with it's  carrier rocket Energia completed a unmanned automated flight (in the 80') , but the project was stopped later on a completely canceled after disintegration of USSR. it was rumored that the project was stopped because there was no real advantage over Soyuz and Progres (progres is a unmanned cargo version of soyuz).
btw.. the Energia rocket was a quite heavy lifter , 100 metric tonnes to orbit (175ton in the biggest configuration - but that configuration was never flown)- some company was considering to revive the rocket -  but no one on Earth needs it's lifting capacity

and let me note that the basic building block of ISS was lifted with the Proton rocket - a heavy lifter rocket dedicated for such a job. so it's not only about soyuz on the russian side.
of course nasa did most of the lifting for ISS - no doubts, but it was quite expensive thanks to the "not so cost effective" shuttle and the building of ISS was quite delayed (no money on the russian side and way too expensive lifter on the US side)

but backt to the topic thumbs up for SpaceX again  and let them bring some new technology into the outdated "space age" world

[corrado33]

I think the design is cool, it looks like a reasonable people mover. I really hope this helps the space program come back into the limelight. While many people think the space program is a waste of money, I think it's great for science. If not for returning data but for getting people interested in science in general.

Anyway, about russians vs. americans. I've been reading a ton lately about the space race and (as an american) was surprised to read that the russians pretty much beat us in everything, except landing on (and orbiting) the moon with actual people. (Then again, their method was pretty much "LAUNCH ALL THE ROCKETS" and eventually one will make it where as the americans were a bit more reserved. But still, it was interesting to read that some old rocket engines were found in a shed somewhere in Russia and after testing, were found to be one of the most efficient (highest ISP) rocket engines to this day. (Even though it was built in the 60s.)

Maybe one day I'll be rich enough to go to space. Not likely, but I can dream.

And yes, the space shuttle didn't quite meet its design goal (cheap way of moving things to space.)

[rob77]

I think the design is cool, it looks like a reasonable people mover. I really hope this helps the space program come back into the limelight. While many people think the space program is a waste of money, I think it's great for science. If not for returning data but for getting people interested in science in general.

Anyway, about russians vs. americans. I've been reading a ton lately about the space race and (as an american) was surprised to read that the russians pretty much beat us in everything, except landing on (and orbiting) the moon with actual people. (Then again, their method was pretty much "LAUNCH ALL THE ROCKETS" and eventually one will make it where as the americans were a bit more reserved. But still, it was interesting to read that some old rocket engines were found in a shed somewhere in Russia and after testing, were found to be one of the most efficient (highest ISP) rocket engines to this day. (Even though it was built in the 60s.)

Maybe one day I'll be rich enough to go to space. Not likely, but I can dream.

And yes, the space shuttle didn't quite meet its design goal (cheap way of moving things to space.)

regarding those engines found it a shed... those were the "inside-out engines" (cooled with oxidiser, not the fuel) - nasa guys believed it's impossible to build such a engine and the russians didn't know it's impossible and built them back in the 60's - 70's btw.. those engines were bought by the US and are used on rockets (not sure which ones , but probably atlas ) - improving the performance of the rockets thanks to the higher ISP of the engines.
i think the whole world should cooperate and share ideas because in every country there are people with great ideas.

[junkie_business]

Hiring a bunch of pimply-faced youth with zero experience of actually bringing a man into space and back?

Just a decade earlier, they were pimply-faced youth with zero experience. The vast majority of those guys were straight out of college. Amazing.

Also, back to Spacex. Look at this. Just look at this shit right here... You don't have to know much about how rocket engines work to understand that what these guys are doing is pretty special.

[warp_foo]

I think the design is cool, it looks like a reasonable people mover. I really hope this helps the space program come back into the limelight. While many people think the space program is a waste of money, I think it's great for science. If not for returning data but for getting people interested in science in general.

Anyway, about russians vs. americans. I've been reading a ton lately about the space race and (as an american) was surprised to read that the russians pretty much beat us in everything, except landing on (and orbiting) the moon with actual people. (Then again, their method was pretty much "LAUNCH ALL THE ROCKETS" and eventually one will make it where as the americans were a bit more reserved. But still, it was interesting to read that some old rocket engines were found in a shed somewhere in Russia and after testing, were found to be one of the most efficient (highest ISP) rocket engines to this day. (Even though it was built in the 60s.)

Maybe one day I'll be rich enough to go to space. Not likely, but I can dream.

And yes, the space shuttle didn't quite meet its design goal (cheap way of moving things to space.)

regarding those engines found it a shed... those were the "inside-out engines" (cooled with oxidiser, not the fuel) - nasa guys believed it's impossible to build such a engine and the russians didn't know it's impossible and built them back in the 60's - 70's btw.. those engines were bought by the US and are used on rockets (not sure which ones , but probably atlas ) - improving the performance of the rockets thanks to the higher ISP of the engines.
i think the whole world should cooperate and share ideas because in every country there are people with great ideas.

There is a decent documentary on those engines:

[HP-ILnerd]

junkie_business:

Just FYI, that wasn't me who said what was in your quote box.  That was Bored@Work.   

[Bored@Work]

junkie_business:

Just FYI, that wasn't me who said what was in your quote box.  That was Bored@Work.   

Yes, and he was so busy with selective quoting that he even cut out the "answer" to what he took issue with:

I think keeping the old hands is a reasonable idea. They already learned their expensive and sometime tragic lessons.