| General > General Technical Chat |
| Electronics industry in the west (the lack of it)...(re-posted without naming) |
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| ocset:
--- Quote ---But the example you chose is just plain wrong. There's no added value in mass producing power supplies around here. --- End quote --- It would result in more uptake of electronics as a career by the young. Thats where the value is. https://massey276.wixsite.com/government Also, it'd be a breeding ground for the more complex power supply designers that you spoke of. In the first place, as the above www explains, it'd make some money obviously, (because theres always a marketplace for power supplies) but itself would be overall loss making (at least at first)...but thats not the point, its the spinoffs it gives....so really, in the whole, it would make money for the country. Yes, though, it would in the first place need government funding....no private investor would embark on this.....but as the www above describes......this money would be returned by way of greater tax revenues from the spin off benefits. --- Quote ---or to Vietnamese companies or wherever the next big pool of cheap labor is to be found. --- End quote --- Its not about cheap labour...it has to cheap and organised......loads of cheap labour in India etc but they dont get anywhere near what China gets....China is of couse now , or very soon, to be the richest nation on the earth without doubt...maybe thats China plus the entire mineral wealth of the South China Sea. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: Ice-Tea on April 18, 2020, 10:29:52 am --- --- Quote from: treez on April 18, 2020, 08:42:32 am ---Usually the Western corporation will simply tolerate it and pay up…since the product is by then making loads of money anyway. The Far Eastern companys can easily do this because they know that the Western SMPS industry has now been so denuded that the capacity just isnt there to take the jobs back. --- End quote --- Lol, no. Contracts are negotiated almost permanently. With every round, chinese suppliers are squeezed like a lemon and pitted against each other. The idea that chinese companies can just jack up the prices is ludicrous. If they did that, the next contract would go another chinese company offering it at 0,02$ cheaper or to Vietnamese companies or wherever the next big pool of cheap labor is to be found. --- End quote --- Unless you've spent a long time in the electronics business in Asia its hard to fully grasp the extent of this. For a lot of business that has a government hand in it there will always be protectionism. The biggest problem a Chinese company faces there is to make their offer so attractive that they can overcome the desire to keep local businesses in the target market alive. Where customer choice is free, Chinese companies are simply competing with other Chinese companies these days. If they are an important company, they may get assistance from their provincial government. However, they are in competition with Chinese companies in other provinces, who get aid from their provincial government. Provinces competing with each other looks insane to an outsider, but maybe it creates a level of competition that works to keep people on their toes. The bottom line is a foreign buyer can essentially play off one subsidised Chinese company against another. Walmart is king. I doubt many Vietnamese companies will win a lot of electronics business in the near term. What is happening is Chinese companies win the business, but more and more of the high labour content is executed in Vietnam, Indonesia, or elsewhere. Similar to the way a Samsung phone or Epson printer is now generally assembled in a Vietnamese plant, from a polished kit of parts that avoids most of the need for good logistics connecting the Vietnamese plant with numerous component sources. --- Quote from: Ice-Tea on April 18, 2020, 10:29:52 am --- --- Quote --- USA and Germany are the Western countries that have retained the most “in country” electronics manufacturing…and its no surprise that they are the richest and most wealthy Western countries, which prooves my point. --- End quote --- No, it doesn't. Neither the USA or Germany produce commodity power supplies. They may make some speciality industrial/military or whatever (and this is most certainly not limited to the USA or Germany) but they sure as hell won't make the wall warts that go with whatever dingus that are boxed with electronics or whatever. You're probably not wrong that the reflex to produce everything in the Far East, always, is wrong. But the example you chose is just plain wrong. There's no added value in mass producing power supplies around here. --- End quote --- The USA and Germany have taken different paths. The US has given up on most electronics manufacture. It has, however, kept a big chunk of the component business, especially semiconductors. Semiconductor assembly and test left the US in the 60s and 70s, and wafer fabrication is now joining it, but the US still has many of the strongest semiconductor companies. With most new design teams being set up in China or India that may change. Germany was one of the first western countries to truly embrace China as both a manufacturing centre, and a market. You see this in the early strength of companies like VW in China. Germany still has a lot of electronics business, and are more prepared than most countries to use automation to keep local manufacture viable. However, German business is well connected to China, and anything that works out cheaper being done in China goes there. |
| donotdespisethesnake:
Meanwhile, the UK are world leaders in flogging dead horses. :-DD Ironically, it's the same sort of wishful thinking that makes UK management so bad, as if prototypes can be made to work by willpower alone, instead of finding causes and fixing bits of hardware or software. |
| ocset:
Take a high quality product like this…. https://www.smoothskin.com/smoothskin-bare-features/ Its pretty much just an offline power supply , a light detector, a big storeage capacitor, a micro, and a xenon flash tube. We all know the power supply is certain to have come from China. Now that the product is established in the market, the Chinese will have jacked up the price of the power supply. –And the company that owns this product will just keep paying the higher price……they won’t go to another company in China and try and get a cheaper one. They’ll stick with what they have and just jack up the price of the product. It would be seen as too risky to make an engineering change….by the non-Engineers that manage the company. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: treez on April 18, 2020, 02:25:56 pm ---Take a high quality product like this…. https://www.smoothskin.com/smoothskin-bare-features/ Its pretty much just an offline power supply , a light detector, a big storeage capacitor, a micro, and a xenon flash tube. We all know the power supply is certain to have come from China. Now that the product is established in the market, the Chinese will have jacked up the price of the power supply. –And the company that owns this product will just keep paying the higher price……they won’t go to another company in China and try and get a cheaper one. They’ll stick with what they have and just jack up the price of the product. It would be seen as too risky to make an engineering change….by the non-Engineers that manage the company. --- End quote --- You know nothing about how the electronics industry works. Why do you just keep making things up? |
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