Author Topic: Electronics job: Left after one day  (Read 5237 times)

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Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Electronics job: Left after one day
« on: November 20, 2021, 08:44:39 pm »
Hi,
On thurs 4 nov I had a very brief  Teams interview with a company that said they needed  me to come and design a circuit for them. They then gave me the job and started me on 9th nov at £35k per annum (pro rata, 6 month contract).

When I got there for the first day, the engineer showed me to my desk. He was  speaking very quickly to me, not letting me ever get a word in edgeways.
I was going to be reliant on this engineer for everything I was to do at the company...eg find a lab space, get electronics equipment, order stuff, etc etc…..i was totally dependent on him.

Anyway, he printed off a schem of a 24V  PSU with a discrete post regulator just downstream of it. The schem had no identification on it….no saying what the max power was, etc etc. He also printed off for me a 12 page article, of a mosfet based class B amplifier. There was a schematic of the class B amp in this article.

He told me that I would have to use the class B schem as it appeared in that article. He told me not to try and Bull***t  him into doing something different. He told me to use the schem pretty well exactly as it was shown, and that at the most, I was to change a maximum of only 5 components, if any at all.

He told  me that he had been working at the company for 30 years and implied that he knew what he was on about. He went off in a babble about Poles and zero's and gain and phase margins.

He told me that if at some point he ever asked me to add a decoupling capacitor somewhere, then I should ruddy well do this, and I should not complain about it. Whilst he  was talking to me, I could literally not get a word in edgeways. I wanted to ask him what the application was, and what the spec was. But as discussed, I could not get a word in sideways!

I wondered why I had  been employed at all. I couldn’t understand why he was expecting me to be the design  authority for the circuit, when I didn’t even know what the spec or application was, and with his 30 years of experience, why did he even need me at all? I wouldnt object to  him doing the circuit by himself, but why was he insisting that my name was to go on it as if I had designed it?

Then , he had to go to a meeting with some suppliers for 2 hours.
He told me to simulate the discrete post regulator whilst he was in the meeting. But i wondered how i was going to properly simulate anything without knowing the spec or the application.
Anyway, Whilst he was in the meeting, I went fishing through the company computer system to try and find out what the project was about. So far, it seemed to me that it might be  an audio amplifier circuit.  Anyway, after  90 mins of searching, I finally discovered what the application was. But I couldn’t find the spec. The application was not audio. Not in the least bit. I was baffled as to why a class B amplifier was coming into it, as this application usually just demanded a simple DC current source.

Anyway, when he came back from his meeting, I tried to ask him for the spec. However, he caught me mid sentence, and began lambasting me with words again...He then gave me a 3.5 hour lecture on the road system in the city where we were at.  Again, I couldn’t get a word in edgeways...he spoke solidly, without gaps.

Anyway, he then got up to go home...and he stood over me, as i was sat at the desk, and reminded me again not to bull***t him, and that I should stick  to the schem he had shown me.

Anyway, after he  had gone home, the project manager came up to me, and told me that I had better get a move on, as the project was due to be finished “last month”.
However, i did not even know what the spec was. I only knew the application because i eventually  managed to fish it out of the computer system whilst he was in the meeting earlier.

When I got home that evening. I wrote them an email  saying that I would be signing off, not going back in. It seemed to me that it was a waste of time for them to parade me as the designer of a circuit , without telling me anything about it…..and the fact that the engineer had told me he was the bees knees, with his 30 years of experience etc etc….so I told them that they’d probably only be hampered if I stayed, and so for their sake, I was leaving. I told them I would not need to be payed for the day, and apologised for their wasted time. I did add that if they (for whatever reason) found themselves without their high calibre electronics  engineers in the near future, then I would gladly come and work on it. But  that for now, I’d only be holding up their 30 year , high calibre electronics  engineer.

Anyway…...they  have now told recruitment consultants that I bottled it, and just walked off after day one. So now these recruitment consultants are finding out from the web who else  I have applied to, and are advising them not to employ me as I “walked off on the first day”….and then most probably advising that they employ their own candidate instead of myself.
And as a result , I don’t seem to be getting any more luck with my job applications now.
Does anyone know the way round this? Have you had the same thing happen?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 08:02:25 pm by Faringdon »
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Offline m98

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2021, 09:56:17 pm »
You must be a magnet for bizarre life stories. Anyways, maybe I'm missing the intricate details of the UK job market, but why would they take such offense by you quitting during the probation period? And why haven't you dropped those "recruitment consultants" already, as they apparently aren't particularly helpful in finding you an appropriate job?
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2021, 10:05:54 pm »
You must be a magnet for bizarre life stories. Anyways, maybe I'm missing the intricate details of the UK job market, but why would they take such offense by you quitting during the probation period? And why haven't you dropped those "recruitment consultants" already, as they apparently aren't particularly helpful in finding you an appropriate job?

This guy has weird stories, but here it's not all surprising. Recruiting agencies do not like people flaking out, even when that's their right and it's perfectly justified. From the agency's POV, the client is the company, the client IS right, and the agency "promised" them a good selected candidate. When things go sour, the agency will lose some credit. The fact they will adivse others to put the candidate on a black list is pretty horrible, but I have seen that happen as well. They just want to maximize their success rates. And this is kind of a rotten "industry" for a large part.
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2021, 10:10:34 pm »
.Anyway…...they  have now told recruitment consultants that I bottled it, and just walked off after day one.

Well, you did walk out after 1 day. You have cut into the pimps' money stream, and they don't like that.

Quote
So now these recruitment consultants are finding out from the web who else  I have applied to, and are advising them not to employ me as I “walked off on the first day”….and then most probably advising that they employ their own candidate instead of myself.

How, exactly,  are they "finding out from the web?"

Your lightweight options are to find other pimps, and to bypass the pimps by locating job openings yourself.

Heavyweight options require solid proof and legal remedies.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline ataradov

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2021, 10:12:20 pm »
Given your previous posts on this forum (including being banned multiple times), I would not hire you either for anything.
Alex
 
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Online Gyro

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2021, 10:34:45 pm »
You must be a magnet for bizarre life stories. Anyways, maybe I'm missing the intricate details of the UK job market, but why would they take such offense by you quitting during the probation period? And why haven't you dropped those "recruitment consultants" already, as they apparently aren't particularly helpful in finding you an appropriate job?

What Faringdon doesn't make clear is that he is a contractor, not a permanent employee. This is the only way that he could have worked for dozens of companies on his CV. As he said, this time he was employed on a 6 month contract.

I'm not clear whether the 'recruitment consultant' is actually a contract agency. Their income is commission based, from the company. Sometimes (the better contractors) are self-employed, with an accountant etc., other contractors are paid via the agency, who bill the company directly and pay the contractor. Regardless, recruitment companies all work on a commission basis, their commission from the hiring company being a significant percentage of the employee's first year's salary.

Contractors are normally not highly regarded by permanent staff. They get paid more (of course not getting paid holiday and other benefits), and have no long term accountability - no career progression and performance reviews, the only sanction for a bad contractor is to terminate their contract. You wouldn't make a contractor a 'design authority' because they aren't permanent employees cannot take accountability on behalf of the company.

Companies normally bring in contractors when they are in a hole (charitably, when they have a sudden peak of work that they need some extra hands on), but normally because their training, career progression, or staff retention aren't keeping up - not an ideal situation. The 'good' situation is to train up your full time staff in good time for the skills and specific knowledge that will be required on upcoming projects. Everyone benefits. Being a contractor means that you are usually going into a hole (one way or another - 'hole' also being English slang for an unpleasant place).

Occasionally really good contractors are offered a permanent position by the company (effectively becoming a 'try before you buy'). This is pretty rare - contractors make a lot more money and only the ones who are looking to 'settle down' and swap income for the security of company benefits packages, pensions, holiday, sickness etc. are likely to accept. £35k pa is a very low figure for a contractor in the UK market.

Agencies don't like unreliable contractors, they lose their commission and it impacts on their reputation with the companies that they serve.
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline Refrigerator

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2021, 10:47:58 pm »
Recently quit a job after three months of being there.
The place had just moved office so there were cardboard boxes of parts all over the workshop floor.
And the workshop was just an office space atop a warehouse where related work took place.
Had no workbench so i brought up an abandoned desk i found in the warehouse.
Talked to the boss and he said that they would get a bunch of shelves to allow me tidy the place up. Sounded promising.
Got work to make these control boxes but was given no schematics or anything besides a doodle on a piece of paper that was barely legible.
After decyphering the doodle i found out that it was completely wrong.
So i drew up diagrams and schematics on my PC. A thing noone had done there before, despite making those control boxes for many years.
The control boxes had these VFD's in them but before me noone had used the RS485 port to configure them, they did hundreds of these through the push buttons, ridiculous.
So i took an RS485 converter they had and hooked it up to the VFD, turning a 5-10 minute process into a 30 second process.
Building those control boxes took ages because a bunch of time was wasted rummaging for parts through the sea of cardboard boxes on the floor.
Fast forward two months and there are still no shelves, the floor is still littered with cardboard boxes hampering productivity.
So i spent the next few weeks finishing up on work that i had started, to not burden the next guy too much, and quit.
Found out that a few days after i quit some new guy came but upon seeing the mess he quit the same day.

I have nothing against the coworkers or the boss but the management there is ass backwards.
They are always in a hurry because they're late on delivering but instead of finding ways to improve productivity they just urge employees to work faster.  :palm:
Hurrying lead to mistakes and shortcuts, which ended up needing to be rectified further reducing productivity.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 10:50:36 pm by Refrigerator »
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Offline bdunham7

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2021, 10:49:18 pm »
So now these recruitment consultants are finding out from the web who else  I have applied to, and are advising them not to employ me as I “walked off on the first day”….and then most probably advising that they employ their own candidate instead of myself.

That part seems rather unlikely...

A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 
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Online Gyro

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2021, 11:02:45 pm »
Recently quit a job after three months of being there.
The place had just moved office so there were cardboard boxes of parts all over the workshop floor.
And the workshop was just an office space atop a warehouse where related work took place.
Had no workbench so i brought up an abandoned desk i found in the warehouse.
Talked to the boss and he said that they would get a bunch of shelves to allow me tidy the place up. Sounded promising.
Got work to make these control boxes but was given no schematics or anything besides a doodle on a piece of paper that was barely legible.
After decyphering the doodle i found out that it was completely wrong.
So i drew up diagrams and schematics on my PC. A thing noone had done there before, despite making those control boxes for many years.
The control boxes had these VFD's in them but before me noone had used the RS485 port to configure them, they did hundreds of these through the push buttons, ridiculous.
So i took an RS485 converter they had and hooked it up to the VFD, turning a 5-10 minute process into a 30 second process.
Building those control boxes took ages because a bunch of time was wasted rummaging for parts through the sea of cardboard boxes on the floor.
Fast forward two months and there are still no shelves, the floor is still littered with cardboard boxes hampering productivity.
So i spent the next few weeks finishing up on work that i had started, to not burden the next guy too much, and quit.
Found out that a few days after i quit some new guy came but upon seeing the mess he quit the same day.

I have nothing against the coworkers or the boss but the management there is ass backwards.
They are always in a hurry because they're late on delivering but instead of finding ways to improve productivity they just urge employees to work faster.  :palm:
Hurrying lead to mistakes and shortcuts, which ended up needing to be rectified further reducing productivity.

It's always worth remembering that an interview is a two way process. You are interviewing the employer just as much as they are interviewing you (in fact I used to mark down candidates who didn't have a decent list of sensible questions to ask me).

You need to ensure that the interview (or at least the final one) takes place at the company premises, so that you can judge the working environment, level of equipment etc. Interviews should be split into management interviews, technical interviews (by senior technical staff), and if the company is big enough, HR interviews too. A decent company's final interview process should take around half a day, on site - if the company isn't prepared to expend that much time on you, then you don't want to work there.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 11:05:29 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2021, 11:54:40 pm »
Quote
Recently quit a job after three months of being there.....
Thanks Refrigerator, interesting  to hear your situation.
May i please ask where that place was, eg what country?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 12:08:38 am by Faringdon »
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Offline Bud

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2021, 12:01:46 am »
A decent company's final interview process should take around half a day, on site -

You guys down there in EU must be living in a fantasy land.
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Offline floobydust

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2021, 01:43:53 am »
There are toxic workplaces in engineering. You'll notice those companies in a state of crisis:
Projects are years late, over budget, nothing is working properly, customers upset, understaffed, rush rush push push panic etc. etc.

One place was on their fourth engineering manager, as that seemed to be the best person to throw under the bus. The CEO was a complete idiot and sabotaging engineering efforts constantly. Millions $ wasted.
Another place was on their third engineering manager and third project engineer. No new products out the door for almost 5 years.

It's no fun walking into this and what you will find is blame being cast on anything but the real problem "we just can't find the right people", "it's that former employee..."
In the energy sector (oil and gas) a business can do no wrong when commodity prices are high, so you'll find many nuthouses that otherwise would be out of business.

Consulting can add further weight because the employees are jealous of your high price compared to them not getting raises for a long time. Most are "paycheque players" content to do little but collect a paycheque, who cares if engineering endeavors are failing, why should they assist you anyhow - it doesn't affect them or their bottom line.

Instead of staying and putting up with the abuse, I've learned to walk out the door. People who stay- end up with health issues due to the stress and misery. Really tough people can stay and weather the mess but you have to look after yourself.
 
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Offline bdunham7

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2021, 02:11:01 am »
In the energy sector (oil and gas) a business can do no wrong when commodity prices are high, so you'll find many nuthouses that otherwise would be out of business.

That's true of many businesses in many sectors in the current capital euphoria where even bankrupt companies can do capital raises.  Ridiculously inefficient and inherently unprofitable 'nuthouses' continue on as if they were legit.

Quote
Instead of staying and putting up with the abuse, I've learned to walk out the door. People who stay- end up with health issues due to the stress and misery. Really tough people can stay and weather the mess but you have to look after yourself.

I worked at a place for 7 years that paid well but absolutely sucked in every way.  Management turned over faster than the seasons, outrageous behavior was tolerated and half the sales staff were criminals and even drug addicts--which they found out when their top sales guy ripped them off for a few hundred grand when he had a dry spell.  Occasionally tensions would flare and employee would go out back and have fistfights.  A customer service rep shot himself in the bathroom due to the stress.  I got out before I was too badly run down, but some were stuck there and a number of them died decades before their time.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2021, 02:34:29 am »
OTOH you can also land in very nice places where people are super friendly and become close friends. Some of the former and current employees of one of my customers still meet a few times per year for a BBQ or dinner.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2021, 05:28:09 am »
I have nothing against the coworkers or the boss but the management there is ass backwards.
They are always in a hurry because they're late on delivering but instead of finding ways to improve productivity they just urge employees to work faster.  :palm:
Hurrying lead to mistakes and shortcuts, which ended up needing to be rectified further reducing productivity.

Did they give you an exit interview? Those are common here, and that is the sort of thing I definitely would have said when going through the exit process. If several employees in a row give the same reasons for departing someone may eventually wake up and do something about it. Hiring and training an employee is an expensive process.

In your position I think I'd have been tempted to stick around, after greatly reducing the time needed to program the VFDs you could have a lot more time in your day to spend doing other things, even personal projects assuming you're producing at least as many widgets per day as they expect. Ask for permission to order the shelving you need on a company credit card and start organizing things yourself.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2021, 05:34:59 am »
Contractors are normally not highly regarded by permanent staff. They get paid more (of course not getting paid holiday and other benefits), and have no long term accountability - no career progression and performance reviews, the only sanction for a bad contractor is to terminate their contract. You wouldn't make a contractor a 'design authority' because they aren't permanent employees cannot take accountability on behalf of the company.

I was a contractor for much of the first decade of my career. The company may pay more for them but that overhead is taken by the contract agency. I have seen a lot of places where contractors are treated like second class citizens, some of that was fallout from the group of contractors that sued Microsoft back in the early 2000's, after that they made sure not to treat contractors like FTEs. Having experienced that during that time in my career I've always made a point since then to treat contractors I've worked with at the places that use them like any other employee.
 
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Online JPortici

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2021, 06:36:07 am »
A decent company's final interview process should take around half a day, on site -

You guys down there in EU must be living in a fantasy land.

I get told that there are companies that make you do 3-4 interviews before even talking to someone else than the recruiter.. even for jobs like cashier or sweeping floors. That is truly ridiculous
 
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Offline Bud

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2021, 07:14:23 am »
Those companies must have too much free time on hand to spend on each applicant. Let alone half a day on one interview - unless it was the Coca-Cola president hiring a VP of Operations .
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Offline Bud

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2021, 07:19:30 am »
Did they give you an exit interview? Those are common here,

Gee... never heard of it here in Canuck Land. Here the employer is just happy to get rid of you asap and some even give you an escort (no, not that type) to the door to make sure you do not stick around for much longer.
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Offline james_s

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2021, 07:21:27 am »
It used to be a FTE interview at Microsoft was an all day thing with lunch provided, I don't know if that's still the case. Where I am now our interviews are typically 3 hours consisting of 3 different sets of people. Occasionally someone will be brought back in for a followup hour long session if we are on the fence for one reason or another. Multiple days as a normal thing sounds painful.
 
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Offline fourtytwo42

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2021, 10:05:01 am »
Giving up after just one day of a hard to handle boss is unjustified, I put up with some of the buggers for years  :-/O
You lack tenacity and it certainly will not help your CV / reputation  :--
 
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Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2021, 10:23:38 am »
Hi,
On thurs 4 nov I had a very brief  Teams interview with a company that said they needed  me to come and design a circuit for them. They then gave me the job and started me on 9th nov at £35k per annum (pro rata, 6 month contract).

...

Does anyone know the way round this? Have you had the same thing happen?

Roughly 41700 EUR salary p.a. would be adequate (low end) for a junior EE fresh from university or an (medium to high end) advanced lab assistant here. Not for an experienced engineer. From what you've told, they were looking for some kind of mindless grunt that just does what they tell him to, offloading that "greatest engineer ever". Doesn't matter if you succeed or fail, you'll be blamed anyway. Bite the bullet, take the money and leave as soon as you can without loosing your face and unecessarily setting them up. One can see this more and more often now. Of course, this engineer did upset you (they'd upset me, too), maybe it's a lesson you've got to learn how to handle this kind of situation without harming your reputation - usually they can tell your recruitment consultants whatever they like and the consultants will believe them, as they are their customer and you're just the goods.

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Online tom66

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2021, 10:31:48 am »
What Faringdon doesn't make clear is that he is a contractor, not a permanent employee. This is the only way that he could have worked for dozens of companies on his CV. As he said, this time he was employed on a 6 month contract.

This is odd.

The day rate for even a junior engineer on contract is around £35/hour.  I would assume Faringdon has more experience and could probably command in the £45-50/hour rate for a senior engineer.

Even at £35/hour that's an annual equivalent salary of £63,000, half what is stated.  So did they employ him as a salaried engineer or a contractor?
 
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Online Gyro

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2021, 10:39:35 am »
A decent company's final interview process should take around half a day, on site -

You guys down there in EU must be living in a fantasy land.

Not at all, we have obviously had different career experiences. You quoted me out of context - I said final interviews. You will have weeded out the 'chaff' long before that, by CV, agent, HR, phone interviews etc. You're talking 2 final candidates by that stage, 3 max. With one hour interviews - a management interview, followed by a couple of technical interview and a wrap-up is half a day! A bit longer if you're in a company big enough to have a decent HR department, then you'll want their input into your decision too. I've experienced exactly the same level of interviewing with US companies.  It's what the Americans call 'due diligence' - and we over here call doing the job properly. I'm surprised you think Canada is different from the US and UK (and EU) in that respect.

A good manager keeps his job by recruiting the best staff, treating them well, ensuring that their skills stay up to date, caring about their career progression (training and development), and retaining them... and ensuring that they perform well of course.

The jobs market is competitive and recruitment is expensive.You want to do as little of it as possible, but for heavens sake, do it properly when you do! You need a good match - otherwise they leave quickly or don't make it through probation. An employee referral program is a good move too, you typically get a better quality of candidate - your existing staff aren't interested in bringing crap people into the team. It's cheaper for the company than recruitment agencies, or wading though the inevitable piles of unsuitable CVs that result from direct advertising (the main function of an agency in fact). Again, everybody wins.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 10:42:46 am by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Electronics job: Left after one day
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2021, 11:03:24 am »
A decent company's final interview process should take around half a day, on site -

You guys down there in EU must be living in a fantasy land.

Not at all, we have obviously had different career experiences. You quoted me out of context - I said final interviews. You will have weeded out the 'chaff' long before that, by CV, agent, HR, phone interviews etc. You're talking 2 final candidates by that stage, 3 max. With one hour interviews - a management interview, followed by a couple of technical interview and a wrap-up is half a day! A bit longer if you're in a company big enough to have a decent HR department, then you'll want their input into your decision too. I've experienced exactly the same level of interviewing with US companies.  It's what the Americans call 'due diligence' - and we over here call doing the job properly. I'm surprised you think Canada is different from the US and UK (and EU) in that respect.

A good manager keeps his job by recruiting the best staff, treating them well, ensuring that their skills stay up to date, caring about their career progression (training and development), and retaining them... and ensuring that they perform well of course.

The jobs market is competitive and recruitment is expensive.You want to do as little of it as possible, but for heavens sake, do it properly when you do! You need a good match - otherwise they leave quickly or don't make it through probation. An employee referral program is a good move too, you typically get a better quality of candidate - your existing staff aren't interested in bringing crap people into the team. It's cheaper for the company than recruitment agencies, or wading though the inevitable piles of unsuitable CVs that result from direct advertising (the main function of an agency in fact). Again, everybody wins.

Yes indeed.

Notably the companies I enjoyed working at had long interview processes which enabled both parties to understand the strengths, weaknesses, and fit.

Contrariwise, those companies with a cursory interview process were looking for bodies and/or cannon fodder. It fits with being a Theory X company.

HP took particular care in this respect; they regarded getting the right people (technically and otherwise) people as fundamental to their success. Every interviewee had HR/personnel, technical, and then short senior management interviews. That's essential for a Theory Y company.
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