Author Topic: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?  (Read 6396 times)

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Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« on: July 17, 2021, 10:57:05 am »
Hi,
This concerns electronics product  design/manufacture/sale.
Is gtech.co.uk owned by Dyson.co.uk?
Gtech  seems to make the same products as Dyson , but cheaper.
Does Gtech get its products and electronics designed and built in China?
If the answer is yes, then can you give one good reason why Sir James Dyson shouldnt have started up  a "gtech" himself? Surely he should have done this? If he didnt , then why on earth not? It was obvious that somebody somewhere would eventually do it anyway.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 09:34:20 am by Faringdon »
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Online Gyro

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2021, 11:36:56 am »
Hi,
This concerns electronics product  design/manufacture/sale.
Is gtech.co.uk owned by Dyson.co.uk?
Gtech  seems to make the same products as Dyson , but cheaper.
Does Gtech get its products and electronics designed and built in China?

Damn, and it's not even Sunday yet!  :palm:

Gtech products look very different products to me Treez. They have 'AirRam' etc. The only similarity I see is that they do handhelds and they are bagless. Cyclone technology is old news now.

Dodgy Dyson has many competitors these days, or are you really suggesting that he started Gtech, Shark (Hoover? ;D) and other superior brands to compete with his own over-inflated priced products?

He patents every tiny bit of plastic anway, as a 'masterly' strategy to foil his competitors.

Quote
If the answer is yes, then can you give one good reason why Sir James Dyson shouldnt have started up  a "gtech" himself? Surely he should have done this? If he didnt , then why on earth not? It was obvious that somebody would do it anyway.

Create all of your own competitors, that's a 'novel' solution. What are you smoking today?  :-DD


P.S. If you need any further evidence of your 'misguidedness' I suggest you consult Companies House... https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/companies-house Did you even bother to go to the Gtech website and look at their company history and products?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 12:19:04 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2021, 03:36:06 pm »
Thanks,
I relation to  a British friends British  lighting company, he is currently setting up a duplicate "version" of his company in China. The China based company will actually become the main design and manufacture centre.

His "token" British company will bring forward the  introductions to the UK and EU customers (by advertising and going to trade shows etc etc)....he will then gradually transfer most of the customers  to his cheaper Chinese products. All of his design and manufacture in future will essentially come from China...but be branded as if it had been done in the UK part of the company.

The Chinese "version" of his company will actually be the main company (but it will be "hidden from view"). And  he will have the Chinese company  directed by an acquaintence........so that his own name will not appear on the list of directors at companies house. In other words, the director will actually be employed by him...but nobody will know this. So the director will just be a "puppet" director. ....Payed a wage with some occasional bonus's.

This "Puppeting" had to be done because he would have become unpopular with his British Engineers and Assembly staff if they found out that he was setting up "their" company in China...

...He couldnt let his staff find out that their British "token " company is now basically just a "shell".......and that their job prospects etc will be near  zero....as they will not really be doing anything other than making  it look like the products are  all British designed and manufactured...which of course they wont be....and of course, if you want to be a sucessful Chinese importer, then you need to have "some" kind of prescence in the UK electronics sector....so you have your "token" British company.

The "puppeting" is actually a legally binding agreement, so that the "puppet" director appears to be the real director, but of course, he isnt really......but companies house will think he is....and so too will the rest of the world.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 09:47:56 am by Faringdon »
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Offline ataradov

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2021, 04:51:13 pm »
What is your goal with all those "investigations"? What are you trying to prove or achieve here?
Alex
 
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Offline G7PSK

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2021, 05:08:10 pm »
Gtech was started by Nick Grey  if his products are any thing related to other brands that would be VAX as he used to work for them. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gtech-founded-by-nick-grey-cleans-up-h909bh5xs

 

Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2021, 06:00:51 pm »
Thats  also right...
...A company like VAX (purely using VAX as an example here because you mentioned it) could fear that  somebody could reverse engineer their entire product range,  then get them made in China, then sell them for half the price......and into the bargain, start using the thousands of Electronics Engineers available in China to design further products for the same market...and put VAX out of business...or give it a severe financial hit.....but if say, the owner of VAX did this himself ....then he wins.
(in none of the above am i actually referring to VAX, other than as an imaginary example, because it was mentioned)
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Online Gyro

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2021, 06:35:19 pm »
Thanks,
I relation to  a British friends British  lighting company, he is currently setting up a duplicate "version" of his company in China. The China based company will actually become the main design and manufacture centre.

His "token" British company will bring forward the  introductions to the UK and EU customers (by advertising and going to trade shows etc etc)....he will then gradually transfer most of the customers  to his cheaper Chinese products. All of his design and manufacture in future will essentially come from China...but be branded as if it had been done in the UK part of the company.

The Chinese "version" of his company will actually be the main company (but it will be "hidden from view"). And  he will have the Chinese company  directed by an acquaintence........so that his own name will not appear on the list of directors at companies house. In other words, the director will actually be employed by him...but nobody will know this. So the director will just be a "puppet" director. ....Payed a wage with some occasional bonus's.

This "Puppeting" had to be done because he would have become unpopular with his British Engineers and Assembly staff if they found out that he was setting up "their" company in China.

He couldnt let his staff find out that their British "token " company is now basically just a "shell".......and that their job prospects etc will be near  zero....as they will not really be doing anything other than making  it look like the products are  all British designed and manufactured...which of course they wont be....and of course, if you want to be a sucessful Chinese importer, then you need to have "some" kind of prescence in the UK electronics sector....so you make a "token" British company.

The "puppeting" is actually a legally binding agreement, so that the "puppet" director appears to be the real director, but of course, he isnt really......but companies house will think he is....and so too will the rest of the world.

Of course your personal hero Mr Dyson (sorry "Sir James" >:D) went the whole hog. A very vocal Brexit proponent, he then did a F*ck you and moved his corporate headquarters to Singapore!

He continues to charge 'made in Britain' prices whilst doing everything in China, taking advantage of his carefully nurtured general public's British product perception. ::)

Every trick in the book - He even advertised his mains cleaners as 'Zero Carbon Emission' because the post filter captured the dust from the brushes! [Edit: he's still claiming the same for his brushless ones].
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 07:27:22 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2021, 11:07:22 pm »
Quote
Create all of your own competitors, that's a 'novel' solution. What are you smoking today?

Not that unusual, is it? Tesco, for instance, have their own brand (Tesco Finest) and have 'secret' budget brands (Boswell Farms, Creamfields, Ms Molly's, etc). They aren't alone, and it's not just supermarkets.

Presumably they do this to capture the different price markets, but watching how stuff on the likes of Amazon get priced I think part of it may be to set a benchmark 'luxury' price with the intent of selling the lower-priced stuff at a higher price than if the luxury benchmark didn't exist.

Have to say that if Dyson isn't flogging cheap stuff on the sly, he might well be missing a trick (if only to take sales from competitors). Maybe you should take up smoking something  :-DD
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2021, 12:26:11 am »
Quote
Not that unusual, is it? Tesco, for instance, have their own brand (Tesco Finest) and have 'secret' budget brands (Boswell Farms, Creamfields, Ms Molly's, etc). They aren't alone,
And for at least one product not only is tescos finest range, 2 "secret brands" and  the cheapest  budget version  made in the same factory,but that same factory is  doing the same for waitrose, aldi,lidl and asda.
 
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Offline G7PSK

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2021, 07:47:35 am »
Virtually all consumer electronics are now made in China and if not assembled there the components are made there. This is something I have argued against for a long time, giving up the manufacture of basic materials in favor of imports. Everything from resistors to steel is now made elsewhere, mostly China. This means they have total control over us and other countries all they have to do is turn off the tap and what can we do absolutely nothing cannot even go to war as we no longer have the raw materials to make the weapons and it takes years to set up manufacturing and the weapon stockpiles we have will last but a few days so its all out nuclear or get marched over. This is why the navy wants the MOD to purchase the last steel works in the UK, they wont because the bean counter have the upper hand and they are so myoptic that they cannot see beyond the bottom of the page on their balance books. Its now the way of the world all we can do is sit tight until the CCP and PLA take over and send us all to thaught correction camps.
 
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Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2021, 03:10:56 pm »
OK, thanks.
Please do not let us blame the Good Chinese People....it is Westerners who place the orders for work.

So is it the case now, that the only realistic course for a  british (insert any western country here)  electronics company, is to get set up, then secretly  start a duplicate company in China using a "puppet" director...make all your money from the Chinese company (design and manufacture) ...and stagnate the engineering in the british company as much as possible (because it doesnt make as much money as the chinese part)...but keep the british company ticking over so you have a presecence in the UK electronics market, and can meet customers in UK  etc...and get them transferred over to the chinese  company if possible?
Is this the way to go now in UK (insert western country here)?
Since Western company's must do this because this is the hand they have been dealt by their governments.
You do this or somebody else comes and does it for you?..and puts you out of business?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 06:51:26 am by Faringdon »
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Offline floobydust

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2021, 06:33:04 pm »
MBA's think it's access to a huge market. As soon as you set up shop in china, all the IP is collected and disseminated for the good of the people.
Western corporations are naive and/or greedy, as well as sheep, they willingly enable their demise.
Within days, chinese competitors have the IP and are starting to make cheapened versions of the product. They start patenting the IP in their homeland.

Good read: China Product Development Agreements highlights how you will get ripped off. It's quite bad, especially the quality problem. Anything not precisely spelled out on a BOM will of course get cheapened and substituted.

Steve Saleen "alleges the Chinese shareholders planned to steal his intellectual property and have filed for more than 500 Chinese patents for his designs and technology."
Google set up shop there and their source code stolen.  :-DD

Dyson will get robbed, same for Tesla, as far as the chinese can go. They can't yet make many things of high quality and writing software is their nemesis, both of which are a limiter.
 
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2021, 01:55:00 am »
Virtually all consumer electronics are now made in China and if not assembled there the components are made there. This is something I have argued against for a long time, giving up the manufacture of basic materials in favor of imports. Everything from resistors to steel is now made elsewhere, mostly China. This means they have total control over us and other countries all they have to do is turn off the tap and what can we do absolutely nothing cannot even go to war as we no longer have the raw materials to make the weapons and it takes years to set up manufacturing and the weapon stockpiles we have will last but a few days so its all out nuclear or get marched over. This is why the navy wants the MOD to purchase the last steel works in the UK, they wont because the bean counter have the upper hand and they are so myoptic that they cannot see beyond the bottom of the page on their balance books. Its now the way of the world all we can do is sit tight until the CCP and PLA take over and send us all to thaught correction camps.

Not all electronic components are made in China, but most products are. All efforts should be made by the West to remove the dependency on Chinese made electronics - now. That includes finding alternative rare earth elements. To stay as we are is just foolish.
 
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Offline SteveyG

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2021, 09:11:11 am »
Quote
Not that unusual, is it? Tesco, for instance, have their own brand (Tesco Finest) and have 'secret' budget brands (Boswell Farms, Creamfields, Ms Molly's, etc). They aren't alone,
And for at least one product not only is tescos finest range, 2 "secret brands" and  the cheapest  budget version  made in the same factory,but that same factory is  doing the same for waitrose, aldi,lidl and asda.

True, but they all are produced independently despite coming from the same factory. Waitrose, M&S etc had very differing requirements from the cheaper brands.
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Online Gyro

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2021, 09:50:01 am »
True, but they all are produced independently despite coming from the same factory. Waitrose, M&S etc had very differing requirements from the cheaper brands.

As witnessed by a past food contamination issue (sometime in the past couple of years irrc), Waitrose and M&S buy their raw chicken from the same supplier as Lidl.  ;D
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Online themadhippy

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2021, 02:49:55 pm »
Quote
True, but they all are produced independently despite coming from the same factory. Waitrose, M&S etc had very differing requirements from the cheaper brands.
wanna bet? i spent several weeks working in a factory and saw it with my own eyes,  the only difference is how its packaged,so waitrose cheapest brand is exactly the same as tescos cheapest,waitrose expensive is the same as aldis finest, apart from being in different packaging.Another clever trick is a brand advertising they dont make for any one else,no they dont, but they dont make it themselves either ,the product is made by there mother company who also churn out the same product for anyone who wants to buy it.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2021, 03:52:16 pm »
What gets me is how come Marmite and the various own-brand clones are so different. Must be the exception to prove the rule :)
 
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Offline AlbertL

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2021, 05:55:47 pm »
Somewhere I have a 1960s issue of Popular Electronics magazine that includes a quiz titled "The Geography of Electronics", where the reader has to match a company name to its home city.

It's interesting to see how that geography has changed over the years, and how certain regions became associated with certain types of products.  For example, I recall that a lot of companies making magnetic-tape recording equipment were based in the Los Angeles area, presumably because it was a center of the entertainment industry which was a big user of those products.
     
 
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Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2021, 07:47:37 pm »
Quote
Gtech was started by Nick Grey  if his products are any thing related to other brands that would be VAX as he used to work for them.
Yes thats right, VAX must have been quite an inspiring place, both Nick Grey, and Sir James Dyson, worked at/with  VAX at the same time, from 1990 to 1991.

I must admit i had been considering applying to Gtech for electronics work, but looking on linkedin, there is a long list of Gtech employees in UK, but only one employee that is obviously a serious electronics engineer in UK.

Apparently Nick Grey started Gtech, now a multi million pound company, with just £18k of savings, and an empty garage.....
https://www.greatbritishlife.co.uk/things-to-do/whats-on/ceo-interview-nick-grey-gtech-7243262

Does anyone know if the electronics engineering is now done mostly in China, or mostly in UK?
(forgive reference to UK, but i think its relevant to people from other countries in the West also, and even beyond that)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 06:42:27 am by Faringdon »
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Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2021, 05:01:03 pm »
....So Nick Grey appears to be an engineer at heart, so it would be shocking if Gtech has resorted to getting  most of its design and manufacture done in China. But is it?
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2021, 06:48:23 pm »
Quote
so it would be shocking if Gtech has resorted to getting  most of its design and manufacture done in China

Why would it be?
 
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Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2021, 07:22:05 pm »
...Because if Gtech can do it, so can most other places in the west (UK)...ie, the places where you or i work....and we loose our jobs.
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Offline fcb

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2021, 07:33:46 pm »
Dyson products are made in Malaysia, not China???  Significant difference.
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Offline fcb

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2021, 07:42:06 pm »
...Because if Gtech can do it, so can most other places in the west (UK)...ie, the places where you or i work....and we loose our jobs.
You're 50 years out-of-date Treez.  Why should you have a job just because you are in the west? And why shouldn't someone in a developing country take that job?  We are all human after all.

If you keep designing in Mornsun converters instead of something made here you are part of your perceived problem.
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Offline FaringdonTopic starter

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Re: Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2021, 07:54:30 pm »
It  also does western countries great harm to get other countries to do most of their general electronics.
Skills that are needed here drain away. A lack of skilled people when those skills are in fact needed here.
I dont think it does China any good either....getting payed a pittance by western middle men.....who become multi millionaires for doing very little...just placing orders
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 07:56:18 pm by Faringdon »
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