General > General Technical Chat
Electronics products...where are they made/designed?
Gyro:
--- Quote from: Faringdon on July 23, 2021, 06:02:54 am ---Philips and Tridonic are highly successful European lighting co's, that get (or would get if needed) government money to survive (the government has their backs) .....the upshot is that the engineers that work at these co's often leave and use the electronics skills to help other start up co's which helps the economy in europe. And better still....most times, these co's turn in a handsome profit.
...
--- End quote ---
As I'm sure we are all aware, Philips spun off its lighting division as 'Signify' some years ago, and Osram has done the same with LEDVANCE (owned by a Chinese consortium). The consumer facing names might remain the same, but not the companies developing and manufacturing them. Maybe they prefer Yen to government euros.
I have just taken apart the only Philips lamp in our house, the most recently purchased (the rest being supermarket and DIY store own brands which have all lasted far longer without failure) which has failed due to Smoked Individual LEDs. Apparently this is a common problem due to poor quality and over-driving. Philips (sorry, Signify) appear to have developed significant quality and reliability issues from anecdotal evidence among electricians.
ebastler:
--- Quote from: Gyro on July 23, 2021, 04:26:38 pm ---As I'm sure we are all aware, Philips spun off its lighting division as 'Signify' some years ago, and Osram has done the same with LEDVANCE (owned by a Chinese consortium). The consumer facing names might remain the same, but not the companies developing and manufacturing them. Maybe they prefer Yen to government euros.
--- End quote ---
Just to clarify: While LEDVANCE (ex Osram) is indeed owned by a Chinese consortium, I understand that Signify went public and nearly all of their stock is free-float. As of 2020, the largest shareholder was Blackrock, owning 3.5% of the shares, followed by Norges Bank, Allianz, JP Morgan. Not sure those are nice guys, but they are US- and EU-based.
Headquarters for LEDVANCE and Signify remain in Munich and Eindhoven (Netherlands) respectively, and I don't think the significant employee base at those locations has changed much since the spinouts.
Gyro:
An entertaining rant on LED lighting from David Savery. Btw, the previous video covered the upcoming removal of lamp types from the market (I can't find the recent thread on the subject but it does clarify nicely).
The rant about main brand lamp manufacturers starts at around 5 mins in. It would appear from his personal experience that LEDVANCE are doing a rather better job than Signify at the moment, with Crompton brand lamps being outlasted by their packaging.
It is of course anecdotal evidence but he does do a lot of installs and has a lot of customers. Usually entertaining viewing anyway (Parental Advisory).
Pineapple Dan:
--- Quote from: Gyro on July 23, 2021, 04:26:38 pm ---
--- Quote from: Faringdon on July 23, 2021, 06:02:54 am ---Philips and Tridonic are highly successful European lighting co's, that get (or would get if needed) government money to survive (the government has their backs) .....the upshot is that the engineers that work at these co's often leave and use the electronics skills to help other start up co's which helps the economy in europe. And better still....most times, these co's turn in a handsome profit.
...
--- End quote ---
As I'm sure we are all aware, Philips spun off its lighting division as 'Signify' some years ago, and Osram has done the same with LEDVANCE (owned by a Chinese consortium). The consumer facing names might remain the same, but not the companies developing and manufacturing them. Maybe they prefer Yen to government euros.
I have just taken apart the only Philips lamp in our house, the most recently purchased (the rest being supermarket and DIY store own brands which have all lasted far longer without failure) which has failed due to Smoked Individual LEDs. Apparently this is a common problem due to poor quality and over-driving. Philips (sorry, Signify) appear to have developed significant quality and reliability issues from anecdotal evidence among electricians.
--- End quote ---
"Philips" LED bulbs have really taken a turn for the worst. Last year I had a few that only stayed lighthing for a few hours before they popped
Faringdon:
Hi,
OK, we forget that the Chinese are good hard working people, honest and kindred spirits. Decent upstanding , hard working people who have a better sense of community towards each other , and others, than we westerners. They are not as greedy as us westerners. They are more moral.
They havent been treated too well by the west in the past either...
They dont owe the west anything.....if I am a Chinese guy and some westerner comes to me telling me to design and make his electronics and make him rich......then i maybe think, well, i'll design you some dodgy electronics so you go out of business...then ill find a different westerner (who i can pay much less) to sell the products to your western market, whilst you have gone out of business selling the dodgy stuff that i deliberately designed dodgy for you.....
So how do Western middle men avoid this type of thing when they try and get products designed and built in China for their western market? Or dont they?...maybe a great many go to the wall?...maybe the Gtech's are the minority who somehow manage to do it and survive?
Surely the electronics designer is king? Surely the western middle man treads a dangerous path? Most are selling Chinese stuff that they have no clue how to evaluate the schematic of.......i've worked for western middle men of electronics who didnt know what a linear regulator was.
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