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Electrons are round!

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gnuarm:

--- Quote from: Simon on August 15, 2023, 11:55:34 am ---
--- Quote from: aetherist on August 15, 2023, 12:01:11 am ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on August 14, 2023, 11:32:32 pm ---How do the orbiting photons in your model (not yet substantiated) explain the Zeeman and Stark effects of external magnetic and electric fields on the atomic spectra?

(BTW, I haven't done the calculations yet but I guess that the erroneous wire table I linked was in terms of mm2, the common wire size in metric-speaking countries, rather than mm diameter, since I have had technical conversations with foreign engineers who used "mils" or "mm" as an abbreviation for area.)

--- End quote ---
I  am an Engineer not a physicist, & i dont know enuff about that kind of stuff.


--- End quote ---

OK, so we are done, you say you don't know what you are talking about but keep talking....

--- End quote ---

That's very rude.  He is saying that he doesn't understand all the details, but he believes what he reads of what others say about the subject.  Is that ok with you?

radiolistener:

--- Quote from: TimFox on August 14, 2023, 11:32:32 pm ---mm2, the common wire size in metric-speaking countries, rather than mm diameter, since I have had technical conversations with foreign engineers who used "mils" or "mm" as an abbreviation for area.

--- End quote ---

cross section area in mm2 is commonly used for high power electricity, such as mains lines, power cable between mains socket and high power equipment, etc. When you deal with more precise electronics, for example hand made RF inductors, transformers, in these area diameter in mm is commonly used...

For example bobbins with copper wire for inductors and transformers are marked with mm diameter. I don't remember bobbins which was marked with cross sectional area in mm^2.

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: radiolistener on August 15, 2023, 01:17:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on August 14, 2023, 11:32:32 pm ---mm2, the common wire size in metric-speaking countries, rather than mm diameter, since I have had technical conversations with foreign engineers who used "mils" or "mm" as an abbreviation for area.

--- End quote ---

cross section area in mm2 is commonly used for high power electricity, such as mains lines, power cable between mains socket and high power equipment, etc. When you deal with more precise electronics, for example hand made RF inductors, transformers, in these area diameter in mm is commonly used...

For example bobbins with copper wire for inductors and transformers are marked with mm diameter. I don't remember bobbins which was marked with cross sectional area in mm^2.

--- End quote ---

I can't recall specifics, but when I look for info on wires, I seem to recall the use of terms which are not properly electronic.  It's as if the electrical world tossed out all the info on units and just invented their own.  So, I think there is a unit they use for area, which reads like a linear unit, circular mils, perhaps?  This gets shorted to just mils in tables.  Maybe that's also true for mm?

TimFox:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 15, 2023, 01:13:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: EPAIII on August 15, 2023, 09:08:41 am ---Actually, since electrons are best described by quantum theory which uses what is called a wave function that describes the probability of finding any individual electron at any given point in the universe and since that implies that each individual electron can actually and truly be at any given point in the universe when that wave function is made to collapse, then the shape of an electron, if it can indeed be said to have any shape at all, would be the shape of the universe itself.

And since we don't actually know what the shape of the universe itself is, we do not know what the shape of an electron is. Not really!

--- End quote ---

Maybe I missed an important post somewhere, but my understanding is an electron is a fundamental particle.  That means it can have no structure.  How would it have any shape, other than a point? 

If you wanted, I suppose you could make an argument that it's an infinitesimally small sphere.  But as soon as you do that, you could extrapolate it to be shaped like a chair or anything else. 

What's wrong with just saying it's a point with no particular shape?  Did someone already mention this?

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Yes, the usual understanding is that the electron is a fundamental particle with no structure.
The experiment discussed in the ill-titled article is testing that understanding, and reported an upper bound to the dipole moment, meaning that they found zero moment (as expected) and that their experiment could be quantified by that bound.

TimFox:

--- Quote from: radiolistener on August 15, 2023, 01:17:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on August 14, 2023, 11:32:32 pm ---mm2, the common wire size in metric-speaking countries, rather than mm diameter, since I have had technical conversations with foreign engineers who used "mils" or "mm" as an abbreviation for area.

--- End quote ---

cross section area in mm2 is commonly used for high power electricity, such as mains lines, power cable between mains socket and high power equipment, etc. When you deal with more precise electronics, for example hand made RF inductors, transformers, in these area diameter in mm is commonly used...

For example bobbins with copper wire for inductors and transformers are marked with mm diameter. I don't remember bobbins which was marked with cross sectional area in mm^2.

--- End quote ---

From a table posted by a wire manufacturer:  "The most common method of referring to conductor sizes uses the cross-sectional area, expressed in mm². The following AWG metric conversion table converts AWG to mm and inches, and also lists the cross sectional area (mm2)."
https://www.elandcables.com/the-cable-lab/faqs/faq-what-is-the-conversion-between-awg-and-the-metric-system 

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