Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud

[Ed.Kloonk]

Theranos sold/leased/whatevered their black boxes to Walgreens (pharmacy/chemists chain in the USA) who put them in ~40 locations. There were real patients with real health problems that made real decisions based on the results from the Theranos boxes. Of course, I don't think it took Walgreens too long to figure out that the Theranos boxes were shit and ripped them all out, but still. What kind of a sociopath/psychopath would sell health solutions that they knew did not work? Makes me sick.

It's frustrating that she was convicted for swindling wealthy investors, not for causing chaos and panic for patients.

This.

Thank you, Duck.

[MrMobodies]

Patients were not allowed to testify because their testimony "would be based on emotions", something to that extent.

Interesting, that reminds of something I read early last year and check out her emotions:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/inside-elizabeth-holmess-final-months-at-theranos

“SHE NEVER LOOKS BACK”: INSIDE ELIZABETH HOLMES’S CHILLING FINAL MONTHS AT THERANOS
BY NICK BILTON
FEBRUARY 20, 2019

Holmes’s travel, security details, and publicists were all paid for by Theranos. Meals, clothing, and other social activities were almost always expensed. As one of the former employees said to me, “Someone had to be paying for all those Birkin bags.” This employee said that Holmes’s expenses were somewhat of a joke at the company. “The company paid for everything,” they said. “She would submit her miles if she drove the six miles to her house in Los Altos.”

The employee said that the only time Holmes evidenced defeat during Theranos’s collapse was when the company cut her off financially, after the criminal charges were filed. “She lost her cool. She had a fit,” they said. “She had to give up the house in Los Altos.”

Emotional, she had a fit when she had had to give up things and no money to spend that the company was paying for.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/29/technology/elizabeth-holmes-sunny-balwani.html

Elizabeth Holmes Says Former Boyfriend Abused Her
By Erin Woo and Erin Griffith
Nov. 29, 2021

Ramesh Balwani, her former boyfriend and business partner, emotionally and physically abused her, Ms. Holmes testified in court on Monday.

Now isn't that testimonial emotional?

[Ed.Kloonk]

Evidence in court is often a one way street, unfortunately.

[magic]

And maybe some memory would be good? Because you'd wonder how they could even "touch" patients outside of very strict clinical studies...

https://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-gets-fda-approval-2015-7?r=US&IR=T

... 
No comment.

In related news, FDA approves treatments based on a mountain of documentation which would take them 50 years to process and release to the public

[SiliconWizard]

And maybe some memory would be good? Because you'd wonder how they could even "touch" patients outside of very strict clinical studies...

https://www.businessinsider.com/theranos-gets-fda-approval-2015-7?r=US&IR=T

... 
No comment.

In related news, FDA approves treatments based on a mountain of documentation which would take them 50 years to process and release to the public

Is that supposed to mean that the FDA serves no purpose except having people think it protects them?
And that if things go sour, they will almost never be liable, even if they approved?
I can't believe that is true. =)

[MrMobodies]

Just found this article and a widow seems to think that Elizabeth might be going back to her Holmes under house arrest instead of doing actual time in prison.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10381451/She-lives-100million-estate-punishment-Widow-biochemist.html

'How is that punishment?' Fury of British Theranos whistleblower's widow as fallen Silicon Valley tycoon faces a lenient jail term...
PUBLISHED: 11:38, 8 January 2022 | UPDATED: 12:05, 8 January 2022

The widow of a biochemist who was driven to suicide when he feared Elizabeth Holmes was going to fire him has said she is worried the Silicon Valley villain could be spared jail.

Rochelle Gibbons said she was concerned Holmes, 37, could be allowed to serve her jail term under house arrest following her conviction on four fraud charges on Monday.

'She lives in a £100million estate. How is that punishment?', Mrs Gibbons told The Times. 'I'm hoping that she gets ten years [in prison] or more than that.'

Dr Ian Gibbons, a Cambridge-educated British biochemist who became Theranos chief scientist in 2005, took a fatal overdose in 2013 after becoming convinced that Holmes would sack him because he challenged her grandiose claims about her blood-testing machine.

Since March, Holmes and her husband Evans had been living quietly on the 75-acre Green Gables Estate in Silicon Valley, presumably renting one of the six smaller properties dotted around the vast grounds.

Sounds to me like she is wealthy again.

Former co-workers describe him as a 'wealth of knowledge'

Joke: Now how would you describe Elizabeth Homes? A wealth of lies and deception?

[m3vuv]

people are making a song and dance about this when we are being pressured to receive untested /proven covid vacines,seems like one rule for one and another for another,suppose it depends on what politicians heads gonna roll when it goes tits up,?


Moderators aware, see Dave's note in the second post on from this one.

[TimFox]

How much testing do you require?

[EEVblog]

NOTE: Another mention of vaccines/covid and I start deleteing posts.

[rsjsouza]

Just found this article and a widow seems to think that Elizabeth might be going back to her Holmes under house arrest instead of doing actual time in prison.

(...)

'She lives in a £100million estate. How is that punishment?', Mrs Gibbons told The Times. 'I'm hoping that she gets ten years [in prison] or more than that.'

(...)

Since March, Holmes and her husband Evans had been living quietly on the 75-acre Green Gables Estate in Silicon Valley, presumably renting one of the six smaller properties dotted around the vast grounds.

Sounds to me like she is wealthy again.

What I don't really understand is how a man with considerable wealth is allured to be involved with a person with such background still heavily entangled in such mess. That might allude to her supposed talent of being quite a manipulative person. 

[tszaboo]

What kind of a sociopath/psychopath would sell health solutions that they knew did not work? Makes me sick.

I see you never had to deal with people with this sort of mental disorder before.
There are people like this, who will do anything for money. The idea, that "I'l lnot commit a crime, because if I'm getting caught and have to spend time in prison" is a usually a good demotivator for these, but not always. We see from history time and time again, what happens when someone with an absolutely moral compass gets too much power.
And it is not that uncommon, AFAIK, 3% of the general population has traits from the dark triad. Most of these people would kill another person, if they are not punished some way. Others just see the entire world in a way: "How can I benefit from this".
I really think we should test and filter for these as a society. And the fact, that the "mental health issue defense" actually exists, blows my mind. Like, you should lock her up especially, because she is suffering from an incurable mental health issue, and she is dangerous, and needs the lesson (like a 4 year old) that if you do bad, bad things happen to you. The only way to deal with them is like a 4 year old, because in a way they are stuck at that mental level.

The only person close to Elizabeth Holmes that I can have any empathy towards is her newborn son who is just another part of her scheming business plan. 

The best thing that can happen to that child is to get him as far as possible from her.

Seriously, read up on the science behind it, and be prepared, because it's just a question of time when you meet with people with these mental health issues. And you need to be prepared to it, and be able to recognize it, otherwise they can ruin your life, or worse.

[nctnico]

What kind of a sociopath/psychopath would sell health solutions that they knew did not work? Makes me sick.

The world is full of such people. My working theory is that big companies have the moral capabilities of a 5 year old kid. Not necessarily because the people are bad but because they can get away with it by blaming the collective.

'The yes men fix the world':

[SiliconWizard]

What kind of a sociopath/psychopath would sell health solutions that they knew did not work? Makes me sick.

The world is full of such people. My working theory is that big companies have the moral capabilities of a 5 year old kid. Not necessarily because the people are bad but because they can get away with it by blaming the collective.

I absolutely agree with this point. Doing something "bad" without questioning it, just because you know you can get away with it, is still morally wrong, and is inexcusable for an adult. But I agree, this is the main reason why it happens.

That's linked to the point I'm repeatedly making in the thread about machine learning, btw. The ability to "get away with it" (lack of liability) is the root problem. You can't avoid some people being morally deficient - that's just part of life. But letting them play freely, just like with kids, is the problem.

[magic]

1. be a 19 year old ignorant
2. come up with a great idea
3. get numerous "open minded" idiots to believe you
4. promise the impossible
5. too embarrassed to admit mistake
6. do damage control
7. maybe things will work out...

I don't hate the chick. She is what America had made her and they reap what they sow.

[nctnico]

What kind of a sociopath/psychopath would sell health solutions that they knew did not work? Makes me sick.

The world is full of such people. My working theory is that big companies have the moral capabilities of a 5 year old kid. Not necessarily because the people are bad but because they can get away with it by blaming the collective.

I absolutely agree with this point. Doing something "bad" without questioning it, just because you know you can get away with it, is still morally wrong, and is inexcusable for an adult. But I agree, this is the main reason why it happens.

That's linked to the point I'm repeatedly making in the thread about machine learning, btw. The ability to "get away with it" (lack of liability) is the root problem. You can't avoid some people being morally deficient - that's just part of life. But letting them play freely, just like with kids, is the problem.

This is also why I'm very pro government regulation. Recently I watched a movie called 'Dark waters' (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9071322/ ) it is about how Dupont has gotten away with severely polluting the environment with toxic waste for decades. One of the key problems is that companies had to notify the US government about substances the companies found to be harmfull to the environment. So if a substance wasn't reported, nobody would check it FFS 

But the US isn't the only country with such poorly functioning regulatory bodies. In the NL there used to be a bank that started out as a lender of consumer credit and ended up becoming a bank. Their solution for people who couldn't pay was to borrow them more money and then chase them for the money again if they couldn't pay the loan back (again). Some victims ended up with mortgages 4 times of what their house is worth and approx.10 to 15 times of their annual income (the 'healthy' norm is 4 times). Some people even killed themselves from pure missery. Meanwhile the guy owning the bank was playing nice weather. If you hear him speak there is no other conclusion that he was 100% convinced that his financial products where good for his customers and he was their financial saviour! Pure psychopathic behaviour. Ofcourse this went wrong during the credit-crunch. As a result the director of the central bank of the NL got -sort of- fired for this mishap. It turned out that the company in question didn't met the criteria to be a bank (not even close!) and only a total idiot would have granted the banking license. Nowadays the former director of the central bank works for the bank of China. I feel sorry for the Chinese...

[floobydust]

The trial did reveal a large part of her and Theranos business behaviour is commonplace in Silicon Valley. Any hype to get investment dollars, fake it 'til you make it, embellish/lie about your accomplishments, party party party, investors are stupid when it comes to tech anyhow. This is the new norm and engineers get the rough ride.
Nikola with their fake electric truck is another classic example and they are only at $4.2B market cap and prototype stage.

Theranos did "erase" the customer database which contained all the names of people "tested" when the servers were decommissioned. One old copy made it to the prosecutors but the encryption key was not known. So proving who had their life upended by false test results for miscarriage, herpes, HIV, blood thickness, hormones etc. - was not possible for the prosecution. She and her people covered their tracks well.

I think Holmes did cross the line into criminality, her armada of lawyers can generate every excuse to let her get away with it and enjoy her cache of money.
Jail does not cure psychopathy, these people are extremely destructive and go to leadership positions. They have no guilt/remorse/conscience microchip in their head.
Boeing's Denis Muilenburg another example yet killed hundreds, ruined the company and slithered out, no problem.

Jury Verdict: "The jury convicted Holmes of the investor wire fraud conspiracy count and three substantive wire fraud counts relating to the scheme to defraud investors, including wire transfers totaling more than $140 million.  The jury acquitted Holmes of the patient-related conspiracy wire fraud count and three additional wire fraud counts.  One count of wire fraud relating to a Theranos patient was dismissed during the trial.  The jury could not reach a unanimous verdict with respect to three investor fraud-related counts."
"Holmes faces a maximum sentence of twenty (20) years in prison, and a fine of $250,000, plus restitution, for the conspiracy count and each count of wire fraud.  However, any sentence following conviction would be imposed by the court after consideration of the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines and the federal statute governing the imposition of a sentence, 18 U.S.C. § 3553"

[MrMobodies]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-12/elizabeth-holmes-sentencing-for-theranos-fraud-set-for-sept-12

Elizabeth Holmes Sentencing for Theranos Fraud Set for Sept. 12
By Joel Rosenblatt +Follow
12 January 2022, 02:19 GMT

Elizabeth Holmes is scheduled to be sentenced Sept. 12 following her conviction for defrauding investors who poured hundreds of millions of dollars into Theranos Inc.

Until then, Holmes will remain free on a $500,000 bond secured by property, according to a court filing Tuesday.

September 12th? 8 months from now which sounds to me a bit long for the sentencing.

Secured by property... I guess that must be the families land.

What I don't really understand is how a man with considerable wealth is allured to be involved with a person with such background still heavily entangled in such mess. That might allude to her supposed talent of being quite a manipulative person. 

She seems very good at what she does to fit in and get her own way.

[cdev]

WHY SO LONG?

Hopefully her conviction and hopefully some actual imprisonment in a non-country-club jail, (California has luxury jails for people with lots of money, (convicted by the state, not the Federal government) but they have to pay a lot to do their time in them)

will improve the honesty of CEOs trying to gain investors.  It wasn't always so much hype like it is now. This seems quite cyclic to me.

The late 1990s was anothger period where the hype level was just nuts, as far as anything Internet. However these newcomers mostly were not technical people, it seems they largely were multimedia people. They made a lot of stuff up. Holmes seems to come out of that kind of business world.

[cdev]

No real scientist would ever erase important medical data like that! Not if they were genuinely trying to make a quality product. Instead of *cough* a "quality scam", or con.

Theranos did "erase" the customer database which contained all the names of people "tested" when the servers were decommissioned. One old copy made it to the prosecutors but the encryption key was not known. So proving who had their life upended by false test results for miscarriage, herpes, HIV, blood thickness, hormones etc. - was not possible for the prosecution. She and her people covered their tracks well.

Business and science don't seem to mix that well too much of the time.

[SiliconWizard]

What kind of a sociopath/psychopath would sell health solutions that they knew did not work? Makes me sick.

The world is full of such people. My working theory is that big companies have the moral capabilities of a 5 year old kid. Not necessarily because the people are bad but because they can get away with it by blaming the collective.

I absolutely agree with this point. Doing something "bad" without questioning it, just because you know you can get away with it, is still morally wrong, and is inexcusable for an adult. But I agree, this is the main reason why it happens.

That's linked to the point I'm repeatedly making in the thread about machine learning, btw. The ability to "get away with it" (lack of liability) is the root problem. You can't avoid some people being morally deficient - that's just part of life. But letting them play freely, just like with kids, is the problem.

This is also why I'm very pro government regulation.

Uh yeah? But this is kind of contradictory with the statement below:

But the US isn't the only country with such poorly functioning regulatory bodies. (...)

Of course not. It's commonplace indeed.
So, given that situation, how would "government regulation" help? Those "regulatory bodies" are already a form of government regulation. What exactly makes you think that things could go better if even more politics than today was involved? Just allow me to be unconvinced.

[rsjsouza]

Indeed. The issue is not more regulation, but a way to figure out how to unclog the pipes of the government cabinets from the rats and pollution that currently occupies them. ATM the vast majority of the governments work for the rich and wealthy, not for the common man.

[Ed.Kloonk]

WHY SO LONG?

The appeals process.

[Bud]

And this time will then be deducted from the jail term.

[Halcyon]

people are making a song and dance about this when we are being pressured to receive untested /proven covid vacines,seems like one rule for one and another for another,suppose it depends on what politicians heads gonna roll when it goes tits up,?

There is no such thing as an "untested" or "unproven" vaccine that has been rolled out to the general population. All of the major brands have undergone the same rigorous testing as any other vaccine for other illnesses. If you think otherwise, you need a reality check. I find it quite insulting that normal, everyday people seem to think they know more than the experts. Facts are facts, whether or not you agree with them.

As Dave said, any more nonsense posts like this and they are getting deleted and this thread locked.

[rsjsouza]

There is no such thing as an "untested" or "unproven" vaccine that has been rolled out to the general population. All of the major brands have undergone the same rigorous testing as any other vaccine for other illnesses. If you think otherwise, you need a reality check. I find it quite insulting that normal, everyday people seem to think they know more than the experts. Facts are facts, whether or not you agree with them.

As Dave said, any more nonsense posts like this and they are getting deleted and this thread locked.

Halcyon, this was three days ago and fully dropped after Dave said what he said. Why would you bring that up again just to pontificate your opinion? Per consistency of the rules, your post is the one that should be deleted.