Author Topic: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud  (Read 47948 times)

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Offline james_s

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #175 on: November 24, 2022, 12:23:44 am »
Meanwhile, scam startups are continuing to flourish all over the place, as we can see in the dodgy tech section (which probably covers only 1% of them all) and all attention is on Elizabeth Holmes. :popcorn:

This thread is all about Elizabeth Holmes, there are plenty of other threads for other scams. Also this one has recent activity, people will soon move on to something else.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes luxury in prison?
« Reply #176 on: November 24, 2022, 01:11:36 am »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11463257/Judge-recommends-pregnant-Elizabeth-Holmes-sent-minimum-security-prison-camp-TEXAS.html
Well, considering that a ton of people are moving to Texas and away from  the s***hole that several capital cities of California are becoming, I wouldn’t be surprised they are actually welcoming this move... :popcorn:
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #177 on: November 24, 2022, 01:28:00 am »
Meanwhile, scam startups are continuing to flourish all over the place, as we can see in the dodgy tech section (which probably covers only 1% of them all) and all attention is on Elizabeth Holmes. :popcorn:
All attention?  This is just a single thread, innit? ;)

I like when Dave, BigClive, DiodesGoneWild, AvE, and others expose dodgy tech, bad tools, bad engineering, in a fun to watch manner on Youtube.
Not only because it is fun to watch, but because they all ridicule the dodgy tech attempts.  That is good: ridicule is better than anger; more useful, too, I guess.

As to other media, there is very little to no news anymore, it's all social media and emotive opinionated "reporting".  What they focus on is arbitrary and insane in any case.  So if you're referring to those, I don't care; they're mostly feces anyway.
 

Offline MrMobodiesTopic starter

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #178 on: November 24, 2022, 01:53:18 am »
I like when Dave, BigClive, DiodesGoneWild, AvE, and others expose dodgy tech, bad tools, bad engineering, in a fun to watch manner on Youtube.
Not only because it is fun to watch, but because they all ridicule the dodgy tech attempts.  That is good: ridicule is better than anger; more useful, too, I guess.

As to other media, there is very little to no news anymore, it's all social media and emotive opinionated "reporting". What they focus on is arbitrary and insane in any case.  So if you're referring to those, I don't care; they're mostly feces anyway.

Just like this opinion from that judge that sentenced her:
During sentencing last week, Davila called the case 'troubling on so many levels.' 'Was there a loss of a moral compass here? The tragedy of this case is Ms. Holmes is brilliant :bullshit:.
...
The sentence imposed by U.S. District Judge Edward Davila was shorter than the 15-year penalty requested by federal prosecutors *but far tougher than the leniency her legal team sought for the mother of a year-old son with another child on the way

Brilliant at work or brilliant at dishonesty?

Judge calling her "brilliant"? after everything she has done and the lying?
I think she got to that judge and influenced her.
What do you think?

*Since when does a "legal team" or defense have a say in the sentencing?
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #179 on: November 24, 2022, 02:25:54 am »
Brilliant at work or brilliant at dishonesty?
Brilliant as in "the Brillant Paula bean", if you ask me.  (No typo.)

What do you call people who are so good at bullshitting other people, that even when those people find out they've been told only lies, still believe the bullshitter is a brilliant person?  I've met many such.  Finance and sales are full of them.  Many, if not most, "celebrated" software developers are such.

"Brilliant" is as good a word as any, I guess.  Just like anything that has "nano" or "quantum" or "enterprise" in its name.
 
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Offline MrMobodiesTopic starter

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes Creature comforts in prison?
« Reply #180 on: November 26, 2022, 11:20:14 pm »
Holmes effectively RUNNING the court:

https://nypost.com/2022/11/23/judge-recommends-cushy-prison-camp-for-elizabeth-holmes/
Quote
Judge recommends cushy prison ‘camp’ with ‘no walls, bars, or fences’ for Elizabeth Holmes
By Olivia Land November 23, 2022 3:30pm
At first glance the recommendation might seem strange, considering Holmes lived and ran her company out of northern California. However, Bloomberg spoke with a criminal defense lawyer who said Holmes’ attorneys likely requested the facility.

During sentencing last week, Davila called the case 'troubling on so many levels.' 'Was there a loss of a moral compass here? The tragedy of this case is Ms. Holmes is brilliant. :bullshit:  'Failure is normal. But failure by fraud is not OK. What is the pathology of fraud? Is it the inability to accept responsibility? Perhaps that the cautionary tale to come from this case.' Addressing the court Holmes broke down in tears, saying: 'I stand before you taking responsibility for Theranos. I loved Theranos. It was my life's work.

Joke: It is IS okay and perfectly fine because she is "brilliant" but because she got caught, it is a tragedy and I'll send her to a comfy prison with creature comforts where she do can what she likes.
Quote
The facility’s handbook boasts of the board games, movie nights and correspondence courses available to inmates. All inmates are also required to work, and receive an hourly wage between 12 cents and $1.15

I wonder is she will start doing business on the ouside from inside the prison with "no walls, bars or fences" of course earning hundreds times more than that.

Quote
“The Court finds that family visitation enhances rehabilitation,” Davila wrote.

I heard of a term for that, swining the children around to get things?

Quote
Prosecutors are also seeking $804 million in restitution to investors – including bigwigs like software mogul Larry Ellison and the Walton family of Walmart – who funded Theranos.

I don't think they would be happy.

Quote
A hearing to determine how much Holmes will have to pay will take place in December. She is also expected to appeal her sentence, which she must do within two weeks of her initial sentencing date.

Here we go again.

Let see what step she is at. She is having another baby so back to step 1:
1: Reappeal sentence.
2: Delay the court even more by asking the prosecutors for things that they have to wait for like documents.
3  Ask for sentence to be quashed.
4: Have another baby
Goto 1:


https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/11/25/elizabeth-holmes-could-stay-out-of-prison-for-a-year-or-more-legal-experts/
Quote
Elizabeth Holmes could stay out of prison for a year or more: legal experts
Judge recommends Theranos founder go to prison camp in Texas

By ETHAN BARON | ebaron@bayareanewsgroup.com | Bay Area News Group
PUBLISHED: November 25, 2022 at 7:30 a.m. | UPDATED: November 25, 2022 at 5:09 p.m

When Judge Edward Davila sentenced Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes to more than 11 years in prison last week, he ordered that she surrender for imprisonment April 27. But legal experts say Holmes could remain free well past that date.

After Davila sentenced Holmes, 38, on four counts of felony fraud, one of her lawyers in the courtroom told him her legal team planned to file a “motion for bail pending appeal” that would allow her to stay out of custody while she appeals the jury’s verdict.

Sounds like beggars belief to me.

Quote
Holmes has remained free for the duration of her four-year criminal case; therefore, it’s unlikely Davila or the 9th Circuit federal appeals court that will hear her appeal would decide she’s a flight risk or threat to the public, and deny her motion for bail pending appeal on either basis, legal experts said

So trying to use this as a bearing whether she is a risk to the public to try and give her something like a suspended sentence but wait she wants to reappeal.

Quote
Holmes could also ask Davila to delay her surrender date, based for example on possible pregnancy complications or needs of her coming newborn, Cohen said.

So that would be step 4 and would be interesting to see when she starts steps 2 and 3.

1: Reappeal sentence.
2: Delay the court even more by asking the prosecutors for things that they have to wait for like documents.
3  Ask for sentence to be quashed.
4: Have another baby
Goto 1:


Article seems to get to the point:
https://news.yahoo.com/heres-how-elizabeth-holmes-may-try-to-avoid-prison-as-long-as-possible-142409334.html
Quote
Here's how Elizabeth Holmes may try to avoid prison as long as possible
Alexis Keenan·Reporter Mon, November 21, 2022, 2:24 PM·5 min read

Elizabeth Holmes has at least one more opportunity to stay out of prison after a judge on Friday sentenced the once-aspiring biotech entrepreneur to 11 years and three months behind bars for defrauding a group of investors in her collapsed blood-testing startup, Theranos.
 Holmes’ freedom is dependent upon an expected appeal of her case, which her lawyers must file within two weeks. Once an appeal is filed, Holmes can request to remain out of custody while her appeal is considered by the 9th Circuit Court of appeals.

George Demos, a former prosecutor for the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, says there’s “no doubt” the fallen Silicon Valley superstar will file an appeal. Only after that request — along with a request to remain free during its penance — will it be clear whether she will begin serving out the sentence Davila handed down.

So whether or not she reports to prison on April 27 remains to be seen,” Demos said. Still, avoiding incarceration altogether is an uphill battle.

First, she would need to persuade Judge Edward Davila – who decided her sentence and presided over her trial — as well as the trial of her codefendant Ramesh “Sunny” Balwani — that she deserves to stay out of custody while her appeal plays out in the higher court. If judge Davila rejects such a request, Holmes can appeal to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which is empowered to decide if she must report to prison or remain free as it considers the merits of appeal.

Second, she would need to prevail in her appeal. Even the appellate court cannot overturn Davila’s sentence, unless it finds that he miscalculated Holmes’ punishment under the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines. On the first point, Kyle Clark, a criminal defense lawyer with Baker Botts said it’s difficult to predict how Davila would respond to a request by Holmes for continued freedom. “If there's an appeal, sometimes they'll keep the people out [of prison] pending appeal, and sometimes they put them in jail, even though there's an appeal pending,” Clark said.

To make that decision Judge Davila would be tasked with considering many of the same factors that determined whether to permit Holmes to remain on bail following her indictment and into her sentence, such as whether or not her crime involved violence, her lack of criminal history, and whether she’s a flight risk. “The judge may be amenable to sentencing her, but holding her at bay while her appeal grinds away,” Clark said. “Though the government's position on that is important, too.”

Clark said he expects that prosecutors would stress that the long process of an appeal could delay Holmes for years from serving out her sentence. “That’s one of the things the government is going to say — that she should go to jail while the appeal is pending,” Clark said. “Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.”

Grounds for appeal
What grounds Holmes may raise to justify an appeal remain uncertain.

Appeals can be based on rulings on testimony and evidence, whether the judge’s rulings during the course of the actual trial are consistent, and whether Holmes was granted or denied the opportunity to put in any exculpatory evidence. However, Clark and other attorneys who talked with Yahoo Finance say Holmes’ chances for the appellate court to overturn the jury’s verdicts or Davila’s sentence are slim given Davila’s close management of the case, which helped to preserve a fair trial.

“The judge tried this case very carefully,” Jacob Frenkel, a white-collar criminal defense attorney, told Yahoo Finance in January immediately after the jury returned its verdicts following seven days of deliberations. “It's unlikely that an appeal would result in changing the sentence.”

Frenkel also pointed out that Holmes, in taking the stand during her trial, may have contributed to sealing her fate on appeal. “The fact is, Elizabeth Holmes testified. That was a gambit,” he said. “And ultimately, the jury made its decision in large part based on whether it did or did not believe Elizabeth Holmes. So I think the appeal is going to be tough sledding for the defense.”

After reading Holmes’ sentence to a packed courtroom on Friday, Davila said he would also afford Holmes another five months out of custody before April 27 when she’s required to surrender to incarceration. Holmes, 38, is now pregnant with her second child. “It’s significant,” Demos said, highlighting that Judge Davila actually made note of the five-month timeframe. “* I believe that’s designed to afford her the opportunity to give birth outside of prison, which is a compassionate and humane thing to do. And hopefully that leads to reforms throughout our prison process.”

How much time will Holmes serve?
If Holmes does file an appeal and fails to persuade Davila or the appellate court to undo what’s done, Demos says she’ll likely have little choice but to serve most of the sentence that Davila handed down. Provisions within the federal sentencing guidelines do include the possibility for early release based on good behavior.

“Whether or not she serves 11 years remains to be seen, but I would suspect she’d serve a substantial portion of that,” he said.

Alexis Keenan is a legal reporter for Yahoo Finance.

* So they designed it on passionate grounds to allow her to give birth outside prison but she's just using it to start appeals and delay the court and the jail sentence every step of the way.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 05:26:35 am by MrMobodies »
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #181 on: November 27, 2022, 05:08:26 am »
Brilliant at work or brilliant at dishonesty?
Brilliant as in "the Brillant Paula bean", if you ask me.  (No typo.)

What do you call people who are so good at bullshitting other people, that even when those people find out they've been told only lies, still believe the bullshitter is a brilliant person?  I've met many such.  Finance and sales are full of them.  Many, if not most, "celebrated" software developers are such.

"Brilliant" is as good a word as any, I guess.  Just like anything that has "nano" or "quantum" or "enterprise" in its name.

Uh... that's a pretty common behavior. People that have been bullshitted and the truth finally comes out, many will tend to prefer considering that the person was extremely talented rather than consider that they have been stoopid all along. (Or admit that was just greed, or whatever reason that made them shut their eyes even when things were already pretty obvious.)

 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #182 on: November 27, 2022, 03:23:59 pm »
"The Talented Mr. Ripley" is a 1955 psychological thriller novel by Patricia Highsmith, more recently made into a film.
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #183 on: November 27, 2022, 06:26:04 pm »
Uh... that's a pretty common behavior. People that have been bullshitted and the truth finally comes out, many will tend to prefer considering that the person was extremely talented rather than consider that they have been stoopid all along. (Or admit that was just greed, or whatever reason that made them shut their eyes even when things were already pretty obvious.)

It is far easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.  The easiest ones to fool are those who believe themselves immune to being played, and saldy, the older one gets, the more prone to that we are.
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #184 on: November 27, 2022, 09:26:26 pm »
Something that I have looked for, but never found, is whether Theranos actually had some prototype machine that sort-of worked at doing some rapid tests.  I knoiw that doing 60+ tests on two drops of blood on blotter paper in 2 minutes was a REALLY big stretch, and most likely not achievable.  But, did they actually have something that partly worked, or did EVERYBODY there know it was all a huge scam?
I suspect people that know are tight-lipped to cover their backsides, but anybody know?
Jon
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #185 on: November 27, 2022, 10:45:53 pm »
But, did they actually have something that partly worked, or did EVERYBODY there know it was all a huge scam?
There is a theoretical background to all this, so that we could say it is "simply" an engineering problem.

For example, you can use standard CMOS manufacturing methods to create a silicon chip to optically detect certain antibodies, as described in this paper from 2009.

To me, the fact that their lead scientist demanded more time, and when Holmes still went into full marketing mode, killed himself, describes the gist of the situation.
As I understand it, they had a theoretical model of how it might be doable, but just could not find any way to convert that theoretical model to a functional device, except for what already exists on the market.

Thing is, Holmes knew they didn't have a device, and the way the scientists demanded lots and lots more time to develop such a device, she was well aware that she was on top of a great big scam, and just didn't want to lose the financial benefits and rewards and publicity she was getting.
 
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Offline fourfathom

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #186 on: November 28, 2022, 12:51:14 am »
There's a grey zone between "fake it until you make it" and "scam while you can".  I think Theranos was well into scam-land.  Holmes had her labs set up with commercial test gear, but claimed they were using the Theranos-designed equipment.

Sometimes faking it is perhaps justified, as long as you see a clear path to actual successful implementation of what you've been promising.  But it's much better to not fake it, and smart investors will accept some amount of failure and setback during the process.  And smart investors will manage the amount of investment during this early development phase.  But Theranos and the investors were obviously not smart in this case.
We'll search out every place a sick, twisted, solitary misfit might run to! -- I'll start with Radio Shack.
 
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Offline MikeK

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #187 on: November 28, 2022, 12:56:50 am »
Thing is, Holmes knew they didn't have a device, and the way the scientists demanded lots and lots more time to develop such a device, she was well aware that she was on top of a great big scam, and just didn't want to lose the financial benefits and rewards and publicity she was getting.

I think it's very telling that she tried to get into a grad research program while still an undergrad.  She wasn't interested in learning the science in the hopes of one day making a contribution...She wanted to jump right to the end.  If you talk to scientists you find out how much there is to know about an area and how much they realize they still don't know.  Holmes didn't care...she thought it was unnecessary...just declare a goal and DO IT.  Psycho + Dunning-Kruger effect = Elizabeth Holmes
 
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Offline MikeK

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #188 on: December 08, 2022, 10:32:10 am »
Looks like Balwani got more time than the Holmes.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #189 on: December 08, 2022, 11:44:28 am »
Should've turned up to the hearing pregnant.
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #190 on: December 08, 2022, 07:59:54 pm »
Thing is, Holmes knew they didn't have a device, and the way the scientists demanded lots and lots more time to develop such a device, she was well aware that she was on top of a great big scam, and just didn't want to lose the financial benefits and rewards and publicity she was getting.

I think it's very telling that she tried to get into a grad research program while still an undergrad.  She wasn't interested in learning the science in the hopes of one day making a contribution...She wanted to jump right to the end.  If you talk to scientists you find out how much there is to know about an area and how much they realize they still don't know.  Holmes didn't care...she thought it was unnecessary...just declare a goal and DO IT.  Psycho + Dunning-Kruger effect = Elizabeth Holmes

Well of course. There have been many successful entrepreneurs with that mindset though. Look at how many were uni dropouts and have built empires.

Sure she's manipulative, sure she's full of herself, sure she's a psycho.
But I'll keep saying that the problem with Theranos was not her, it was all the people who followed her.
And that's a general problem, which is why I'm pointing it out. By herself, she wouldn't have been able to do squat except talk. The root problem is always the followers. It has been, it is and it will be. For one psycho that ends up in prison, there are millions of potential followers waiting for the next one.



 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #191 on: December 08, 2022, 08:20:04 pm »
The root problem is always the followers. It has been, it is and it will be. For one psycho that ends up in prison, there are millions of potential followers waiting for the next one.
We can't change humans from followers to leaders.  If you try, you end up becoming a Mengele or similar monster.  So, we have to harness the psychos, or accept the chaos they sow.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #192 on: December 08, 2022, 09:20:16 pm »
The root problem is always the followers. It has been, it is and it will be. For one psycho that ends up in prison, there are millions of potential followers waiting for the next one.
We can't change humans from followers to leaders.  If you try, you end up becoming a Mengele or similar monster.  So, we have to harness the psychos, or accept the chaos they sow.

I would have expected a little more nuanced from you.
So people are either sheeps or leaders? Uh, no. More education and a better sense of responsibility gets you there. No need for inflated monster concepts.
And that ends in a Godwin point. *sigh*

Oh, and the worst sheeps are the ones who know perfectly well what they do. In Theranos's case, that's very likely most of the people involved except of course the patients.
 

Offline MikeK

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #193 on: December 08, 2022, 09:47:16 pm »
But I'll keep saying that the problem with Theranos was not her, it was all the people who followed her.  And that's a general problem, which is why I'm pointing it out. By herself, she wouldn't have been able to do squat except talk. The root problem is always the followers. It has been, it is and it will be. For one psycho that ends up in prison, there are millions of potential followers waiting for the next one.

We would have nothing without the workers willing to follow and do the work.  Can't really fault people motivated by employment.  They were trying to do the work and she had unreasonable expectations.  Nobody is waiting around for a psycho to show up to follow.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #194 on: December 08, 2022, 10:10:31 pm »
Psychopathy is highly sought after as a business leadership trait in CEO's. Prison doesn't affect it at all, the disorder is in mask ROM.
Problem with being a follower engineer, is you get pulled into the corruption when they push you to overlook/fake/thwart good ethics. You collect a paycheque, a fabulous ride on a ship heading for the rocks.
But when the exec comes up to you and commands a little transgression here and there and you have mortgage payments and a family to support, you can get trapped.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #195 on: December 08, 2022, 11:19:53 pm »
Psychopathy is highly sought after as a business leadership trait in CEO's. Prison doesn't affect it at all, the disorder is in mask ROM.

For that reason I kind of think they should be executed or tattooed with a warning to protect the rest of society. Psychopaths are incurable and cause an outsized amount of damage to those around them.
 

Offline MikeK

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #196 on: December 08, 2022, 11:40:56 pm »
Psychopathy is highly sought after as a business leadership trait in CEO's. Prison doesn't affect it at all, the disorder is in mask ROM.

For that reason I kind of think they should be executed or tattooed with a warning to protect the rest of society. Psychopaths are incurable and cause an outsized amount of damage to those around them.

Read "The Psychopath Test" by Jon Ronson.  One case study in it, a guy, tried to appear crazy to avoid punishment for a minor crime.  He was given the test and gave all the "psychopathic" answers on purpose.  Once identified as a psychopath, though, he was locked up and had a helluva time getting out.  Any normal behavior was interpreted as manipulative psychotic behavior.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #197 on: December 09, 2022, 02:24:22 am »
Psychopathy is highly sought after as a business leadership trait in CEO's. Prison doesn't affect it at all, the disorder is in mask ROM.

For that reason I kind of think they should be executed or tattooed with a warning to protect the rest of society. Psychopaths are incurable and cause an outsized amount of damage to those around them.

I agree and find these people need to be tossed into the meat grinder. They are extremely destructive, by nature. In relationships and as business executives.
They are missing the bulk of human emotions, find them baffling to see in other humans. They learn to fake emotions, mimic them. It does make them "free" to commit all kinds of heinous acts. I think they are more commonplace than the statistics.

A CEO had just fired the engineering manager. An hour later I pass by the CEO in the washroom, he's joyful and smiling asking me how things are going. I'm taken aback because the entire eng dept. is stunned, so I say "not sure who's going to manage the group". After much thought he says in a low voice "yeah, we lost a good man there". Pretty obvious he has no emotions or empathy, even happy that he had someone to blame for the failures.

Another acquaintance, adopted into a family with university professors for parents, yet is a career criminal. Theft, weapons offenses, raped several women and reached his pinnacle robbing a bank. He tried to get me to join him "all that money's in the vault just sitting there, it belongs to nobody"... He got 4 years jail time, and no change in behaviour.

It's shocking to know these people and their incessant need for power and control, along with their narcissism. Many I've known are low intelligence, learning (school) is very difficult for them. But they fake their grandeur. I also notice they constantly make snork sounds with stuffed up sinuses.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud
« Reply #198 on: December 09, 2022, 05:06:23 am »
The root problem is always the followers. It has been, it is and it will be. For one psycho that ends up in prison, there are millions of potential followers waiting for the next one.
We can't change humans from followers to leaders.  If you try, you end up becoming a Mengele or similar monster.  So, we have to harness the psychos, or accept the chaos they sow.

I would have expected a little more nuanced from you.
So people are either sheeps or leaders? Uh, no.
Your definition, not mine.

I accept people as they are.  I do not want to try to change them, because according to my own ethics, I do not have the right to force them to change, no matter how much I believe they'd be better of by it.  Others have tried, and failed, and become monsters.  Most of the people referred to by Godwin's law never thought of themselves as monsters, they genuinely believed themselves to be a force for good.  Until you understand and accept that, you know nothing of humans.

Now education is paramount, and will lift people away from poverty and unhealthy living conditions and behavioural patterns.  It is admirable, and I will support efforts trying to make education available to everyone.  However, it will not make many less prone to manipulation by psychopaths and sociopaths.  That kind of 'immunity' or protection is a personality trait.  Knowledge or understanding will offer only minimal support –– the kind where you know to try to avoid those people.  Knowledge or understanding will not protect you when they get so close they can directly interact with you.

Take myself as an example.  I know how these people operate.  Yet, when put face to face, I will be manipulated successfully.  It is only later, when I review my on actions and behaviour (which itself is actually pathological and not healthy), I will 'detect' the pattern.  If you insist education and responsibility gets you there, how you explain my naïvete?  Which one do I lack, education or responsibility?  I know many intelligent and practically knowledgeable people (so not just academic knowledge, but also practical knowledge, including how fraudsters work) that still easily fall for social games, because they lack the personality traits that would shield them from it: I'm in no way unique in this.  It is the underlying reason why I so detest social games: I and many others have no defense against them, even when we know exactly how they work, because they are based on something deeper than just the conscious mind.

If one accepts my argument that sociopaths and psychopaths exploit human psychology in ways that are based on personality traits and not learned behaviour, one will immediately see that there is no workable inoculation to give the masses.  The only non-monstruous way, therefore, is to harness the psychopaths and sociopaths, to minimise the chaos and unstability they sow.

Also, note that I say "harness", and not confine/jail/isolate.  There are many positions they are well suited for, and beneficial to the people around them.
I'd love to work for a firm with one at the helm, but with emotionally/psychologically bound to the company and the work they do: the "our very own monster" concept.
 

Offline MrMobodiesTopic starter

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes convicted of fraud Balwani sentenced to 13 years in prison.
« Reply #199 on: December 09, 2022, 07:21:36 am »
They are missing the bulk of human emotions, find them baffling to see in other humans. They learn to fake emotions, mimic them. It does make them "free" to commit all kinds of heinous acts. I think they are more commonplace than the statistics.
Joke:
She does have human emotions but only for herself for her personal lifestyle, assets and her means of finance.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/inside-elizabeth-holmess-final-months-at-theranos
Quote
“SHE NEVER LOOKS BACK”: INSIDE ELIZABETH HOLMES’S CHILLING FINAL MONTHS AT THERANOS
BY NICK BILTON FEBRUARY 20, 2019

Holmes’s travel, security details, and publicists were all paid for by Theranos. Meals, clothing, and other social activities were almost always expensed. As one of the former employees said to me, “Someone had to be paying for all those Birkin bags.” This employee said that Holmes’s expenses were somewhat of a joke at the company. “The company paid for everything,” they said. “She would submit her miles if she drove the six miles to her house in Los Altos.”

The employee said that the only time Holmes evidenced defeat during Theranos’s collapse was when the company cut her off financially, after the criminal charges were filed. “She lost her cool. She had a fit,” they said. “She had to give up the house in Los Altos.”
Sounds to me like she was "the company". All those investors investing in her and the employers paying through their work just to keep her lifestyle afloat.

When she found out she was not "the company" anymore and no longer important than anyone else there she showed her "emotions" by having a fit. I wonder what will happen in prison if she goes to prison. Will she influence and control the inmates or (if they knew any better) beat these "emotions" out of her to make them show more often.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63895825
Quote
Sunny Balwani: Former Theranos executive gets nearly 13 years in prison
Published 1 day ago By Madeline Halpert BBC News, Washington

Ramesh "Sunny" Balwani, the business partner of disgraced Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes, has been sentenced to nearly 13 years in prison.

Balwani was convicted in July of 12 counts of wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud for his role in the failed blood-testing start-up. Theranos executives falsely claimed the product could diagnose illnesses with a few drops of blood from a finger prick. Holmes was sentenced to over 11 years (135 months) in prison last month. Balwani did not speak as he was sentenced to 155 months in prison at the end of a nearly four-hour sentencing hearing on Wednesday. His lawyers say that like Holmes, he plans to file an appeal.

Unlike Holmes, he was found guilty of defrauding patients who used the blood tests. Holmes was convicted of four counts of fraud. Once hailed as the "next Steve Jobs", she launched Theranos after dropping out of Stanford University at age 19. The company's value rose sharply after it claimed it could bring about a revolution in disease diagnosis.

Balwani, the company's former president and chief operating officer, served as her second-in-command and had direct oversight over the company's labs. Though the two were originally charged together, their trials were separated after Holmes accused Balwani of emotional and physical abuse during their romantic relationship, which occurred during their time at Theranos. She argued that his alleged manipulation of her was controlling and affected her business decisions. Balwani, who is 19 years her senior, has denied those allegations.

Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes gets 11 years in prison for fraud Who is Elizabeth Holmes and why was she on trial?
"Mr Balwani is not the same as Elizabeth Holmes," his lawyers wrote in a memo to the judge before the sentencing, adding that Holmes "was dramatically more culpable" for the scam.

"He actually invested millions of dollars of his own money; he never sought fame or recognition; and he has a long history of quietly giving to those less fortunate." The sentence was read in the same court in San Jose, California, the heart of Silicon Valley, where Holmes learned her fate less than three weeks earlier. Balwani's trial was sparsely attended compared to Holmes'. For her 18 November sentencing, crowds formed a queue five hours before the court opened, but there was no line to see him.
So she calls an "emotional" and "physically" "abusive" relationship a "romantic relationship"?  :bullshit:
From 2003 to 2016?

Quote
During her trial, Holmes testified that she had been raped while she was a student at Stanford and that she had sought solace from Balwani in the aftermath of the incident.
...
However, she later testified that Balwani had not forced her to make the false statements to investors, business partners, journalists and company directors that had been described in the case.[37] In her court testimony, Holmes stated that Balwani wanted to "kill the person" she was and make her into a "new Elizabeth" In court filings, Balwani and his ex-wife Fujimoto have "categorically" denied abuse allegations, calling them "false and inflammatory"
...
Balwani divorced his wife in 2002[113] and became romantically involved with Holmes in 2003, about the same time Holmes dropped out of university.[111] The couple moved into an apartment together in 2005
Now if you were physically abused by someone would you go back to them?

So Balwani's ex wife testified that she herself was not emotionally and physically abused during their relationship leaving Holmes to be making it up. Why would he abuse Elizabeth Holmes and not the wife?

I thought I remember from a documentary that she fired him but it seems like he just stepped down.
https://www.americanbazaaronline.com/2016/05/12/theranos-president-and-coo-sunny-balwani-resigns411917/
Quote
Theranos President and COO Sunny Balwani resigns
May 12, 2016 5:24 pm by AB Wire

The President and COO of Theranos Inc., Ramesh ‘Sunny’ Balwani, who played a key role in the blood testing laboratory’s product development, growth, and the implementation of its mission, is retiring from his position.
...
50-year-old Balwani, a top associate of Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes, leaves in the wake of last month’s news
...
Theranos spokeswoman Brooke Buchanan said Balwani isn’t being blamed for the company’s regulatory problems. Rather, she said, his departure is merely part of a broader reorganization that will see the company appoint a new chief medical officer, to whom its labs will report, a new head of research and a new operating chief. The company is actively recruiting for those positions.
...
Fortune noted that Balwani leaving is “as if Holmes were cutting off her own right arm.”
What a young age to retire.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 08:29:29 am by MrMobodies »
 


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