Author Topic: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts  (Read 16291 times)

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Offline Bud

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« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 05:15:52 pm by Bud »
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Offline chris_leyson

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2018, 05:32:08 pm »
Big congratualtions to all of cave rescue divers and a great shame navy seal Saman Kunan died rescuing the boys. The BBC and probably a lot of other news organizations published a map of the system showing cross sections in places. it's a bloody difficult system even when it's dry ! Vern Unsworth was bloody right to tell Mr Musk where he could stick his submarine because he hasn't got a clue.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2018, 05:55:05 pm »
So when do we get electric, solar powered submarines, with 2 dollar tickets between Tokyo and New York going 2000Km/h?
 
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2018, 06:24:29 pm »
If it was in good faith kudos for Elon for at least offering it, but really this is something you'd want to test in a controlled environment for a while before actually using it, so I can see why they didn't want to use it.   It also looked kinda clausterphobic, it perhaps needed to be a tad bigger at least. I'd want to at least be able to move my arms around.  But I guess the idea is to be able to fit in very tight areas so he made it as small as is realistic. 
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2018, 06:32:36 pm »
Well, if those rescue people failed and killed a bunch of kids, their interviews would look much different.

There is no time to try different options in a row in situations like this and you have to work on all options at the same time.  I don't see the reason to bash the options that did not end up being selected.

Now there is a tiny submarine, which can be perfected and used for similar situations in the future, so the humanity is better off than it was before. I don't see the problem here.

Some call it PR on Elon's side. I call PR all the BS interviews those stuck up divers are giving.
Alex
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2018, 06:53:41 pm »
Quote
A leader of the operation had previously called the mini-submarine idea "not practical".
That led to Mr Musk being criticised by some people on social media.
The billionaire said he had just been trying to help.
He said: “This reaction has shaken my opinion of many people.
"We were asked to create a backup option and worked hard to do so. Checked with dive team many times to confirm it was worthwhile.
Now it’s there for anyone who needs it in the future.
"Something’s messed up if this is not a good thing."
Besides that, Musk doesn't need or buy any advertising.

 

Offline chris_leyson

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2018, 07:03:19 pm »
Vern Unsworth said it might get as far as 50m from the entrance, what about the other 4km then ? I used go caving as a kid albeit in dry systems and I had friends free diving sumps in wet systems. There are a lot of places where the divers had to take their oxygen tanks off it's that tight. There is no way a mini submarine is going to help.
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2018, 07:06:39 pm »
Elon Musk thought that he could help to he contacted the people in charge. I don't see a problem here. It's a far more useful attitude than sitting back and saying that you will pray for divine intervention.
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

Warren Buffett
 
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Online ataradov

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2018, 07:08:12 pm »
pray for divine intervention.
Don't underestimate the value of thoughts and prayers :) And likes were an immense help.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 07:09:45 pm by ataradov »
Alex
 

Online wraper

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2018, 07:23:48 pm »
Richard Stanton who was one of the rescuers who found the boys asked for making the mini submarine. Vern Unsworth is just a dick IMO. Rescue without a capsule became possible only because water level dropped, if it didn't things could be completely opposite.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2018, 07:24:45 pm »
Oh look, another Musk love hate thread.
 

Offline chris_leyson

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2018, 07:25:17 pm »
To be fair to Mr Musk, he tried but I don't he was given enough information about the difficult conditions.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2018, 07:29:03 pm »
Besides that, Musk doesn't need or buy any advertising.


What's the source of that image? If true, it seems Musk offered help that was welcomed and encouraged.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2018, 07:29:53 pm »
What's the source of that image?
Musk's twitter as response to initial uninformed criticism. It is legit, unless we want to accuse him of faking it himself.
Alex
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2018, 07:39:03 pm »
Musk's twitter as response to initial uninformed criticism. It is legit, unless we want to accuse him of faking it himself.
I'm not implying anything of that nature, I'm just careful not to assume things based on what was initially an image without a source. If Musk posted this I don't think many will doubt its veracity.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2018, 07:40:14 pm »
I'm not implying anything of that nature
That was not my implication either, I just wanted to cover all bases. It is the world we live in :)
Alex
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2018, 07:48:42 pm »
Also many pump manufacturers went to the site. I bet some of them put in some ridiculous ideas.
But those you don’t hear about.
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2018, 07:57:37 pm »
Richard Stanton who was one of the rescuers who found the boys asked for making the mini submarine. Vern Unsworth is just a dick IMO. Rescue without a capsule became possible only because water level dropped, if it didn't things could be completely opposite.

Vern Unsworth was heavily involved in the rescue, knows the caves intimately, and persuaded the Thai authorities to bring in Richard Stanton and John Volanthen. Describing him as "just a dick" is uncalled-for.

Given the stresses Mr Unsworth was under, a certain lack of tact when contemplating the efforts of a well-meaning but self-important dilettante is perhaps understandable.

I am sure Mr Musk was very keen to help, and in different circumstances his ideas may have been valuable, but he clearly failed to listen to experts with relevant knowledge when visiting the rescue effort.

 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2018, 08:04:09 pm »
Also many pump manufacturers went to the site. I bet some of them put in some ridiculous ideas.
But those you don’t hear about.
History is full of ridiculous idead that turned out to work.
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2018, 08:05:51 pm »
Elon Musk thought that he could help to he contacted the people in charge. I don't see a problem here. It's a far more useful attitude than sitting back and saying that you will pray for divine intervention.

Or joining in another Musk hate fest.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2018, 08:06:18 pm »
Vern Unsworth was heavily involved in the rescue, knows the caves intimately, and persuaded the Thai authorities to bring in Richard Stanton and John Volanthen. Describing him as "just a dick" is uncalled-for.

Given the stresses Mr Unsworth was under, a certain lack of tact when contemplating the efforts of a well-meaning but self-important dilettante is perhaps understandable.

I am sure Mr Musk was very keen to help, and in different circumstances his ideas may have been valuable, but he clearly failed to listen to experts with relevant knowledge when visiting the rescue effort.
He can be both heavily involved and a dick. Without more information about why these two are having an argument it's hard to tell.
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2018, 08:12:20 pm »
Vern Unsworth was heavily involved in the rescue, knows the caves intimately, and persuaded the Thai authorities to bring in Richard Stanton and John Volanthen. Describing him as "just a dick" is uncalled-for.

Given the stresses Mr Unsworth was under, a certain lack of tact when contemplating the efforts of a well-meaning but self-important dilettante is perhaps understandable.

I am sure Mr Musk was very keen to help, and in different circumstances his ideas may have been valuable, but he clearly failed to listen to experts with relevant knowledge when visiting the rescue effort.
He can be both heavily involved and a dick. Without more information about why these two are having an argument it's hard to tell.

Absolutely. And since we lack that information it is inappropriate to throw around unearned insults.
 

Offline SparkyFX

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2018, 08:16:28 pm »
It takes an additional risk if you have to send someone in there to take measurements first, just because a person fits through holes doesn´t mean the vehicle can. You might skip that or replace with estimations, maybe there is data available, but a rescue vehicle that gets stuck or fails means more additional problems or block the only way available completely. There have been disasters in which a quickly hacked together machine worked very well - no doubt about it.
But aside of that I think it is possible to worsen a situation with help.

Anyway, someone in charge needs to take the decision what is done and not be occupied with a direct or media-implied discussion or giving/receiving lessons while trying to do the best under pressure. I don´t think criticism (especially not in that wording and form) does actually matter right now or would be useful, this is just egos.
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Offline chris_leyson

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2018, 08:18:21 pm »
Maybe I shouldn't have said "Elon Musk hasn't got a clue" but I don't know if he's ever been caving and that's the point I was trying to make, should have perhaps elaborated a little more. If any of the posters here have ever been caving before, they would at least have some insight as to how difficult conditions can be.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 08:20:27 pm by chris_leyson »
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: Elon Musk can stick his submarine where it hurts
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2018, 08:32:40 pm »
Unsworth:1 Musk:0
Sorry, fanboys...  >:D

« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 03:56:54 pm by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
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