General > General Technical Chat
Elon Musk is a nice chap
Zero999:
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 30, 2022, 09:43:37 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on November 30, 2022, 08:54:27 pm ---Identifies as what? How do I know I'm a man and not: a woman, non-binary, fluid, pan gender etc.? What's the objective reality?
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Do you think you're a man? Then you're a man.
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I don't know. You tell me. What's do you mean by man? We can't discuss the matter, without clear definitions.
--- Quote ---But for some, simple male = man, female = woman breaks down. By assuming that, you don't account for transgender people, but even if you want to ignore that group, which I assume you do because that's the thing a lot of people with your type of opinion do, then you still need to handle intersex and no biological sex (around 1% of all people - similar to transgender rates in fact). Gender has only strongly correlated with sex, it's not equal to sex.
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No, it's much lower than 1%. Intersex is a physical abnormality. Their genes still are XY or XY, with a few vanishingly small number of exceptions. Anomaly doesn't invalidate the rule. Humans normally have four limbs, but someone with only one arm is still a human.
--- Quote ---I don't see the problem with saying you're whatever you want, provided it's not something like saying you're a nazi or whatever, because that's outright offensive to large numbers of people. I know a trans person well enough to accept them for what they want to be, and I would hope one day you could do the same, just like society learned to accept that being gay was OK. A couple of years ago I would have been a lot more like yourself, but it's pretty clear from the research and studies that acceptance is one of the best routes to dealing with gender dysphoria. There is really very little debate on this matter, even if some other matters about transgender people are still debated.
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Oddly enough, I used to have your opinion, but have reversed it. Partly on listening to my brother who's gay, who raised the problems this ideology is causing for society. Incidentally, it's not the same thing as being gay, because it means being in denial of one's reality.
No long term studies have been done. The problem with affirmation is it invariably leads people down the path of irreversible medical treatments. It was reading the studies and applying critical thinking which made me change my mind. We don't affirm someone who wants a limb amputated or blinded, because they have transablism and sex shouldn't be any different.
--- Quote ---We still need the distinction of biological sex for sports for example, because there's clearly a difference between biologically male and biologically female athletes, but in most areas, it's completely OK to say you're whatever you want to be. And who does it hurt?
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There have been instances of males competing in women's sports and winning because they have a biological advantage.
I don't have a problem with someone saying they're whatever they want. The problem I have is when they want me to believe them.
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 30, 2022, 10:00:11 pm ---
--- Quote from: wraper on November 30, 2022, 09:55:23 pm ---Whatever you say is decided, is not decided even in Western world. Not to say the vast majority of Earth population will call it total bollocks. The problem is not with sayng what you identify with (abuot which I don't give a damn), but that they want mandating everyone to accept that as an objective reality and make it legally binding.
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A substantial amount of the world believes it's OK to stone women for adultery, so I don't accept the idea that because people disagree, it's a bad idea. 30-40 years ago, the majority of the Western world would have opposed the idea of gay marriage, now it's widely accepted. The same thing will eventually happen with gender, whether you accept it or not.
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I repeat it's not the same thing as being gay.
And define gender? What does it mean?
james_s:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on November 30, 2022, 10:49:23 pm ---And define gender? What does it mean?
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IMHO its meaning is either synonymous with sex, or it is simply a label one chooses to apply to themselves, in which case it is biologically and scientifically irrelevant and is more or less equivalent to a nickname.
SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on November 30, 2022, 08:54:27 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on November 30, 2022, 08:15:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on November 30, 2022, 08:12:51 pm ---True, especially given many people can no longer define basic words such as man and woman.
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Oh come on, you can't be serious about this crap.
Man = someone who identifies as male.
Woman = someone who identifies as female.
That's it. That's literally the definition.
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Identifies as what? How do I know I'm a man and not: a woman, non-binary, fluid, pan gender etc.? What's the objective reality?
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What if I want to identify as a cactus? Is this legit or not?
coppice:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 30, 2022, 11:32:30 pm ---What if I want to identify as a cactus? Is this legit or not?
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Now you are just trying to be prickly.
TimFox:
--- Quote from: coppice on November 30, 2022, 11:38:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 30, 2022, 11:32:30 pm ---What if I want to identify as a cactus? Is this legit or not?
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Now you are just trying to be prickly.
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It takes a pair to be prickly.
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