General > General Technical Chat
Elon Musk is a nice chap
james_s:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on December 01, 2022, 03:27:21 pm ---Actually, there are long term studies, showing 40% attempted suicide rate by transgender people.
The same rate is 31% for people with gender dysphoria. Both is staggeringly high, and these people are not getting the help that they would actually need.
--- End quote ---
I'm not surprised. Some claim it is because the way they are treated by society but that is obviously nonsense, lots of other groups are treated poorly by society or have been in the past and do/did not have such sky high suicide rates. That doesn't mean it's ok to treat anyone poorly but I'm quite sure that itself is not the reason for the suicides. They have a serious mental illness and transitioning does not change that, the benefits are often transient. Anorexia is another body dysphoria disorder yet we don't advocate affirming care for that, if you told an anorexic "yeah, you are fat, let's get you on a diet" people would think you were crazy.
james_s:
--- Quote from: tooki on December 01, 2022, 08:30:38 am ---You may not have heard about it, but it’s actually something documented since antiquity. It’s absolutely, probably, not just something concocted in recent years. In many cultures it’s actually been integrated into core belief systems. (Like the “third sex” people in India, or Native American peoples.)
--- End quote ---
Ok so it's some exotic concept that has existed in the fringe for years, but in Western culture at least "gender" is synonymous with "biological sex" to the vast majority of people, at least English speaking people. When most people including myself refer to gender, they're actually referring to sex, not gender identity.
coppice:
--- Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2022, 05:26:27 pm ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on December 01, 2022, 03:27:21 pm ---Actually, there are long term studies, showing 40% attempted suicide rate by transgender people.
The same rate is 31% for people with gender dysphoria. Both is staggeringly high, and these people are not getting the help that they would actually need.
--- End quote ---
I'm not surprised. Some claim it is because the way they are treated by society but that is obviously nonsense, lots of other groups are treated poorly by society or have been in the past and do/did not have such sky high suicide rates. That doesn't mean it's ok to treat anyone poorly but I'm quite sure that itself is not the reason for the suicides. They have a serious mental illness and transitioning does not change that, the benefits are often transient. Anorexia is another body dysphoria disorder yet we don't advocate affirming care for that, if you told an anorexic "yeah, you are fat, let's get you on a diet" people would think you were crazy.
--- End quote ---
Try looking at the work of V S Ramachandran on a variety of people whose mind and body are in discord. People whose nervous system tells their brain they lack a limb which it still there and fully functional. People who get constant agony in limbs long since amputated. People with strange forms of synesthesia, that result in a constantly conflicted mind. These people get so screwed up by their problems they will happily do things like amputate a working limb. These are people who very rarely get abused by society. Most people have enormous sympathy for their plight, and they are usually treated with great kindness. Still, many end up not wanting to live. Ramachandran has devised some brilliantly simple tricks to bring some people back into harmony, but many still suffer horribly, and want to die whatever is done for them.
TimFox:
--- Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2022, 05:29:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on December 01, 2022, 08:30:38 am ---You may not have heard about it, but it’s actually something documented since antiquity. It’s absolutely, probably, not just something concocted in recent years. In many cultures it’s actually been integrated into core belief systems. (Like the “third sex” people in India, or Native American peoples.)
--- End quote ---
Ok so it's some exotic concept that has existed in the fringe for years, but in Western culture at least "gender" is synonymous with "biological sex" to the vast majority of people, at least English speaking people. When most people including myself refer to gender, they're actually referring to sex, not gender identity.
--- End quote ---
“Gender” is unambiguous but sometimes irrational in grammar, more important in non-English European languages.
coppice:
--- Quote from: TimFox on December 01, 2022, 07:14:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: james_s on December 01, 2022, 05:29:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on December 01, 2022, 08:30:38 am ---You may not have heard about it, but it’s actually something documented since antiquity. It’s absolutely, probably, not just something concocted in recent years. In many cultures it’s actually been integrated into core belief systems. (Like the “third sex” people in India, or Native American peoples.)
--- End quote ---
Ok so it's some exotic concept that has existed in the fringe for years, but in Western culture at least "gender" is synonymous with "biological sex" to the vast majority of people, at least English speaking people. When most people including myself refer to gender, they're actually referring to sex, not gender identity.
--- End quote ---
“Gender” is unambiguous but sometimes irrational in grammar, more important in non-English European languages.
--- End quote ---
Is gender even a word most of us encountered before our first foreign language class for a language which uses the concept in wacky ways? My pronouns are 他, 他 and 他的, and will be so regardless of my sex or gender. If you are really nice to me, 佢, 佢 and 佢的 are acceptable, too.
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