General > General Technical Chat
Elon Musk is a nice chap
tszaboo:
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 09, 2022, 09:35:40 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on December 08, 2022, 06:53:49 pm ---I've driven a few Teslas, and a handful of other electric cars, and a large number of cars in general. To say their only redeeming quality is being the first electric is ridiculous. Yes they have had some problems, but the performance is so far ahead of every other production EV around that it's hard to even compare. A Tesla next to just about any other electric car is like a high performance supercar next to a Toyota Corolla. I was blown away by the acceleration, the Model Y my dad had is the fastest car I've ever driven by a wide margin and it isn't even the fastest version they offer. It drove very nicely too, smooth, quiet, my friend's dad owns it now and it has been problem free.
--- End quote ---
A few years ago sure - but now you have vehicles like the Jaguar i-Pace, Porsche Taycan, Audi e-Tron (S Quattro), Ford Mach-E... These have comparable performance to the Tesla's in the same price range. Really all Tesla has left now in unique performance is at the ultra high performance end, the sub 3-seconds sports sedans.
--- End quote ---
This is exaclyly what I wanted to write. And I would add, that teslas have all these gigantic panel gaps, uneven gaps, quality issues, or just plain and simple bad design choices, or badly written software that breaks your car, that don't exist with other brands. I know someone with a model S, he spent more on repairs than me on my Toyota. The built in charger blew up twice. I asked about the warranty. Oh yeah, its 2 year. 2 year! Imagine that. The Lexus electric comes with 10 year warranty.
He drove into a concrete post at 1km/h and that was a 6000 EUR deal to repair.
Just looked up the price of the new model S, it's 140000 EUR.
So yeah, shiny bad cars which are overpriced.
wraper:
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 09, 2022, 09:35:40 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on December 08, 2022, 06:53:49 pm ---I've driven a few Teslas, and a handful of other electric cars, and a large number of cars in general. To say their only redeeming quality is being the first electric is ridiculous. Yes they have had some problems, but the performance is so far ahead of every other production EV around that it's hard to even compare. A Tesla next to just about any other electric car is like a high performance supercar next to a Toyota Corolla. I was blown away by the acceleration, the Model Y my dad had is the fastest car I've ever driven by a wide margin and it isn't even the fastest version they offer. It drove very nicely too, smooth, quiet, my friend's dad owns it now and it has been problem free.
--- End quote ---
A few years ago sure - but now you have vehicles like the Jaguar i-Pace, Porsche Taycan, Audi e-Tron (S Quattro), Ford Mach-E... These have comparable performance to the Tesla's in the same price range. Really all Tesla has left now in unique performance is at the ultra high performance end, the sub 3-seconds sports sedans.
--- End quote ---
Nope, they don't cave comparable performance for the price. For the same price you get inferior acceleration and/or range. Only base model Mach-E looks comparable to rear wheel Model 3 at similar price, but you still get somewhat inferior range.
wraper:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on December 11, 2022, 04:38:30 pm ---Just looked up the price of the new model S, it's 140000 EUR.
--- End quote ---
For Model S Plaid with 2.1s 0-100 km/h acceleration. Now look for a price of the most powerful variant of Porsche Taycan which does not even come close in specs.
tom66:
--- Quote from: wraper on December 11, 2022, 05:02:01 pm ---Nope, they don't cave comparable performance for the price. For the same price you get inferior acceleration and/or range. Only base model Mach-E looks comparable to rear wheel Model 3 at similar price, but you still get somewhat inferior range.
--- End quote ---
Uh, no. Tesla has a lot of competition nowadays.
The base Model 3 is 5.8s to 60, this will set you back £48.5k excl fees of about £1k.
The Ioniq 5 "77kWh 325PS Performance" is 5.1s to 60 and £50k. And it'll go at least as far as the Model 3 and comes with a 5 yr warranty on the car and 8 yr on the battery.
The Polestar 2 Long Range has 402hp and is 4.5s to 60 and just under £50k. Also has similar range, though fast charging speed not quite as good, and warranty is only 3 years.
There are others, but Tesla has lost its performance advantage except in the sub 3 second range, where it's only really Porsche and Audi on the same platform in competition, but Tesla are down to 2 seconds there. Which is definitely cool but you probably won't run a mass auto production business on £120k sedans.
At the lower end Tesla has serious competition. If you don't care about 0-60, you can get an ID.3 77kWh which will go a similar range to the LR Model 3, and still get to 60 in a decent 6.5 seconds (VW advertise 7.3 seconds, but they undersell deliberately.) That will set you back £42k.
Zero999:
--- Quote from: tooki on December 11, 2022, 12:29:11 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ranayna on December 11, 2022, 12:16:59 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on December 11, 2022, 11:05:43 am ---Elon reducing censorship and clamping down of child porn on Twitter is great
--- End quote ---
I heard this claim often here in this thread, and also elsewhere. But always unsourced.
So: What are credible sources to this alleged clamping down?
--- End quote ---
Yep. I made your argument, too. Apparently, his promises to do more than the (obviously) insufficient response from pre-Elon Twitter is enough to garner adulation, regardless of what they actually end up doing.
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 11, 2022, 12:23:15 pm ---Well, he's definitely reduced censorship by sacking off most of the moderation teams, and all(?) of the "Trust & Safety" team (whether you agree on that being 'good' or 'bad' is another matter)
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I said that too, and was admonished that it’s supposedly a different team… ::)
--- End quote ---
To be fair, there really isn't any objective data on this. I found this article which says 44k CP accounts have been deleted since Musk too over, but it's probably the tip of the iceberg.
https://www.outlookindia.com/national/twitter-bans-44k-accounts-on-child-pornography-but-not-enough-improve-manpower-technology-to-urgently-address-issue-say-critics-news-241526
I do know Twitter has refused to delete CP in the past and Musk has sacked the person who was in charge of censorship back then.
https://www.opindia.com/2022/10/censor-chief-vijaya-gadde-is-fired-how-twitter-refused-to-take-down-child-porn/
Whether Musk has or will make any progress on clamping down on CP, the fact he's acknowledged it's a problem is a start.
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