Elon Musk is a nice chap

[vk6zgo]

You are behind the times. The left is now the domain of the affluent. They couldn't give a damn about the underprivileged. They've redefined all the relevant terms, so they can feel good about their nasty ways.

Your comment is straight out of the Trump playbook!

Actually its straight out of looking at the people in supposedly left wing parties parties like the UK's Labour Party, and the reaction of the working class to them.

The ALP, like many other Social Democrat parties lurched to the right, buying into some of the "Free Market" stuff, but the Liberal & National Parties (in Coalition) went further. (by the way, the "Liberals" are much closer to the UK Tories than anything called "liberal" elsewhere)

The ALP is slowly finding its way back to its roots, whereas the Coalition seemed to have lost its way completely, courting the extreme Right, with so-called "strategists" telling them that is their "base".(with compulsory voting, the idea of a "base" doesn't mean a lot)

In the recent Australian Federal Elections, a lot of what pass for "moderates" in the Liberal Party lost their seats to a new, very loose grouping of "Teal Independents", who were offering a philosophy more like that of the classic version of the Liberal Party.

Various crazies say that voters deserted the Liberal Party "because they weren't Right wing enough".
They supposedly said "Rather than vote for a "woke" Lib, I might as well vote for really woke candidates!"

Sounds like "cutting off their nose to spite their face", if they put up "more conservative" (read radical right") in those seats  at the next election, as they have been shown the mood of the electorate.

The washup was that the ALP formed government, & have been trying to reform the dysfunctional wage setting structure.
Employers, of course, are starting to shriek & scream, as always.

The Right have been trying to push the "we're for the workers" barrow, but people who haven't had a pay rise for nearly ten years aren't buying it!
If, as the Coalition propaganda has it, "Lefties" were an elite minority of "latte sippers", where do all the ALP votes come from election after election?

After elections, voters for the losing side usually tolerate the new government, especially if they are competent, even if not to their taste.
With the bunch of drones the Coalition fielded for the previous 9 years, tolerance was wearing thin!

P.S. I you want "nasty", Google Robodebt!

[PlainName]

The left is now

Many policies, now considered to be far-right

Can we not just forgo whether something is left, right, far, near and just treat it on its merits? I am fairly sure that if we were to select a bunch of reasonable policies we'd find that some are left and some are right, and because of that we would likely never end up with the good selection.

[james_s]

Can we not just forgo whether something is left, right, far, near and just treat it on its merits? I am fairly sure that if we were to select a bunch of reasonable policies we'd find that some are left and some are right, and because of that we would likely never end up with the good selection.

Probably not. Humans are tribal animals, and many will categorically reject anything that comes from another tribe and support everything from their own. 

[Zero999]

You are behind the times. The left is now the domain of the affluent. They couldn't give a damn about the underprivileged. They've redefined all the relevant terms, so they can feel good about their nasty ways.

Your comment is straight out of the Trump playbook!

Actually its straight out of looking at the people in supposedly left wing parties parties like the UK's Labour Party, and the reaction of the working class to them.

The ALP, like many other Social Democrat parties lurched to the right, buying into some of the "Free Market" stuff, but the Liberal & National Parties (in Coalition) went further. (by the way, the "Liberals" are much closer to the UK Tories than anything called "liberal" elsewhere)

The ALP is slowly finding its way back to its roots, whereas the Coalition seemed to have lost its way completely, courting the extreme Right, with so-called "strategists" telling them that is their "base".(with compulsory voting, the idea of a "base" doesn't mean a lot)

In the recent Australian Federal Elections, a lot of what pass for "moderates" in the Liberal Party lost their seats to a new, very loose grouping of "Teal Independents", who were offering a philosophy more like that of the classic version of the Liberal Party.

Various crazies say that voters deserted the Liberal Party "because they weren't Right wing enough".
They supposedly said "Rather than vote for a "woke" Lib, I might as well vote for really woke candidates!"

Sounds like "cutting off their nose to spite their face", if they put up "more conservative" (read radical right") in those seats  at the next election, as they have been shown the mood of the electorate.

The washup was that the ALP formed government, & have been trying to reform the dysfunctional wage setting structure.
Employers, of course, are starting to shriek & scream, as always.

The Right have been trying to push the "we're for the workers" barrow, but people who haven't had a pay rise for nearly ten years aren't buying it!
If, as the Coalition propaganda has it, "Lefties" were an elite minority of "latte sippers", where do all the ALP votes come from election after election?

After elections, voters for the losing side usually tolerate the new government, especially if they are competent, even if not to their taste.
With the bunch of drones the Coalition fielded for the previous 9 years, tolerance was wearing thin!

P.S. I you want "nasty", Google Robodebt!

It's true social democratic parties have gone right free-market wise, but they've moved further left socially.  Rather than using public ownership as a means to redistribute wealth, they've shifted towards equal outcome for all groups in society, starting with those they believe to be the most oppressed first. If an oppressed group is shown to have a poorer outcome, it's always put down to systemic oppression/racism/sexism/trans/homophobic etc. and the system i.e. laws changed or positive discrimination/affirmative need to be enacted to correct it. This is why many working class people are rejecting them. Both of the main parties in the UK have shifted in this direction, with Labour going much further than the Conservatives, hence the rise of so-called far-right parties.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Can we not just forgo whether something is left, right, far, near and just treat it on its merits? I am fairly sure that if we were to select a bunch of reasonable policies we'd find that some are left and some are right, and because of that we would likely never end up with the good selection.

Probably not. Humans are tribal animals, and many will categorically reject anything that comes from another tribe and support everything from their own.

We shouldn't do it because it's exactly what our lizard invaders want us to do.

 

https://archive.org/details/v-1983.e-01_202007
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_(1983_miniseries)

[RJSV]

   'left is now the DOMAIN of the affluent...'.   interesting!
   Keeping clear of partisan or directly partisan expression, I have noted, again more in spirit of just monitoring 'existing administration'...I've noticed:
   Economy, Janet Yellen expressing clearly faulty views on spending,...CLEAR MULTIPLE warnings, from economy experts, along partisan lines friendly to current admin., yet,...crisis inducing actions took place 'anyway'.
   So, a person could construct arguments, non-partisan, just that an argument could say:
   Choose:.      #1). Janet Yellen is incompetent
                         #2)  Janet Yellen knew (the dynamics driving out of control inflation)

   Of course, some completely partisan person/ argument might say same thing, but I've tried, some, suppose a completely uninformed person watched the whole 'Janet Yellen is stymied by 'unexpected' inflationary pressures....'.

   "We never could have anticipated...such inflation would pop up, out of nowhere..."

Lame, lame, lame, lame
(Now, THATS a partisan statement)!

[Ed.Kloonk]

 
   "We never could have anticipated...such inflation would pop up, out of nowhere..."

The one I like from this week is..
"A generation of people haven't heard the word inflation before"

 

That's because the concept and indeed the economic effect of it is kryptonite to their agenda.

[vk6zgo]

 
   "We never could have anticipated...such inflation would pop up, out of nowhere..."

The one I like from this week is..
"A generation of people haven't heard the word inflation before"

 

That's because the concept and indeed the economic effect of it is kryptonite to their agenda.

Doesn't bother the Reptilians, as long as they can find a nice juicy rat to munch on!

[RJSV]

I have to be careful, Ed; the 'THEY' you speak of...one of em is my landlord / housemate.
   I've decided, keep mouth shut, (for rest of month), or some crazed, slobbering animal might try take a piece of me.
   Definitely NO BARs for a big while...as 'they' weep, and pound breasts, like biblical anger.

[vad]

Elon have endorsed GOP on Twitter today. He is a nice dude indeed.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Elon have endorsed GOP on Twitter today.

Who would expect him to endorse the other bunch?

You'd have to be a masochist.

[james_s]

Who would expect him to endorse the other bunch?

You'd have to be a masochist.

I'm not going to endorse either one, it's a matter of holding my nose and selecting the candidate I loathe least. Both of the viable parties in the US have been taken over by extremists.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Who would expect him to endorse the other bunch?

You'd have to be a masochist.

I'm not going to endorse either one, it's a matter of holding my nose and selecting the candidate I loathe least. Both of the viable parties in the US have been taken over by extremists.

I've enjoyed over the years watching how your Taylor Swift had tried to do a Dolly Parton and stay out of it for the whole career. They weren't gonna let 'ole tay-tay get away with that!
 

[tszaboo]

Who would expect him to endorse the other bunch?

You'd have to be a masochist.

I'm not going to endorse either one, it's a matter of holding my nose and selecting the candidate I loathe least. Both of the viable parties in the US have been taken over by extremists.

A stand up comedian here was saying, that if you would start a political party loosely translated as "Neither one of them" or similar name, you would have a good chance of winning elections.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Who would expect him to endorse the other bunch?

You'd have to be a masochist.

I'm not going to endorse either one, it's a matter of holding my nose and selecting the candidate I loathe least. Both of the viable parties in the US have been taken over by extremists.

A stand up comedian here was saying, that if you would start a political party loosely translated as "Neither one of them" or similar name, you would have a good chance of winning elections.

We had this guy a few years back..

Geoff Richardson changed his full name to "Of The Above None" and stood as an independent for the seat of Gilmore at the 2007 Australian federal election. His name appeared as NONE, Of the Above on the ballot.

He got nearly the most votes among all the also-rans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_results_for_the_Division_of_Gilmore

There are a None of the above group in nearly every jurisdiction, for anyone who may be interested or need advice in voting with that sentiment. 

[RJSV]

   I'm going to go fly to Australia,...vote there illegally, in that 2007 election,...if Australia is anything like United States, they'll STILL be counting, the 2007 ballots.

[vad]

   I'm going to go fly to Australia,...vote there illegally, in that 2007 election,...if Australia is anything like United States, they'll STILL be counting, the 2007 ballots.

You are risking of ending up in another branch of multiverse, where Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party wins the 2007 election.

[Zero999]

Elon have endorsed GOP on Twitter today.

Who would expect him to endorse the other bunch?

You'd have to be a masochist.

Elon actually comes across as a centrist. He said he's endorsing Republican, because the president is Democratic, which implies the two will cancel to some degree.

I wouldn't vote for either party. I'd look at the candidate first.

[james_s]

Elon actually comes across as a centrist. He said he's endorsing Republican, because the president is Democratic, which implies the two will cancel to some degree.

He is a centrist. If you read what he actually says it's mostly pretty reasonable. The problem is that everyone these days is so sensitive and jumps to conclusions. Say something that doesn't fully align with the party line and suddenly you are a full on right/left wing extremist. James Damore is another centrist that inadvertently became perceived as a far right conservative simply because some prominent conservatives sided with him on a particular issue.

[Zero999]

Doesn't bother the Reptilians, as long as they can find a nice juicy rat to munch on!

Have you actually looked into some of the policies of the Republican party, rather than judging them on Trump's rhetoric and the Australian mainstream media's coverage?

It appears many people do that, including in the USA. They'll get their news from sources which backup their leaning and judge the opposing party accordingly. I saw a video, by a Republican journalist, going to a Liberal university campus and presenting Republican policies to the students there, but telling them they're Democratic policies and most of them agreed with them. When th journalist did told them the truth at the end and many of them appeared shocked and embarrassed.

Some of the Republican policies are pretty similar to those already implemented in Australia and appear to be widely excepted there, such as being tough on immigration and crime. The Democrats want open boarders and short sentences, even for serious crimes, which probably wouldn't be popular in Australia. For balance, the Democrats support universal healthcare, which would probably be supported by most Australians, yet the Republicans oppose it.

Elon actually comes across as a centrist. He said he's endorsing Republican, because the president is Democratic, which implies the two will cancel to some degree.

He is a centrist. If you read what he actually says it's mostly pretty reasonable. The problem is that everyone these days is so sensitive and jumps to conclusions. Say something that doesn't fully align with the party line and suddenly you are a full on right/left wing extremist. James Damore is another centrist that inadvertently became perceived as a far right conservative simply because some prominent conservatives sided with him on a particular issue.

Interpolating the various views I here from Americans, it appears few people there support either party. For example one might be pro-choice, yet against gender resignment of minors, which appears to be the case for many. A lot of people must be in a very difficult position.

Anyway regarding free speech vs misinformation. It's definitely true censorship is a far greater evil than misinformation. I find it odd how there have been various conspiracy theories: HIV is fake, the Elvis isn't dead, the moon landings were fakes and few people cared until recently.

[james_s]

Interpolating the various views I here from Americans, it appears few people there support either party. For example one might be pro-choice, yet against gender resignment of minors, which appears to be the case for many. A lot of people must be in a very difficult position.

Anyway regarding free speech vs misinformation. It's definitely true censorship is a far greater evil than misinformation. I find it odd how there have been various conspiracy theories: HIV is fake, the Elvis isn't dead, the moon landings were fakes and few people cared until recently.

Yes I have described myself as politically homeless. I've had people argue with me that I'm voting against my own best interests, but the problem is I'm doing that no matter who I vote for because there are issues I feel strongly about that no party is on the same page as me about all of them. I'm forced to pick and choose which particular issue I feel more strongly about at the time.

The issue with the conspiracy theories is that the internet has done what it promised and given a voice to marginalized groups. The problem is some of those groups were marginalized for a good reason. It's easy to ignore the weirdo standing on the street corner holding a sign saying something outlandish, it's a lot harder when conspiracy theories are spread all over social media and get presented as fact.

[nctnico]

Interpolating the various views I here from Americans, it appears few people there support either party. For example one might be pro-choice, yet against gender resignment of minors, which appears to be the case for many. A lot of people must be in a very difficult position.

Yes I have described myself as politically homeless. I've had people argue with me that I'm voting against my own best interests, but the problem is I'm doing that no matter who I vote for because there are issues I feel strongly about that no party is on the same page as me about all of them. I'm forced to pick and choose which particular issue I feel more strongly about at the time.

I guess you are not the only American who is politically homeless. IMHO the US is the example on how extreme polarisation messed up any meaningfull way of actually governing a country. A situation which is actually worse than communism.

[Zero999]

The issue with the conspiracy theories is that the internet has done what it promised and given a voice to marginalized groups. The problem is some of those groups were marginalized for a good reason. It's easy to ignore the weirdo standing on the street corner holding a sign saying something outlandish, it's a lot harder when conspiracy theories are spread all over social media and get presented as fact.

That's a problem, but I still maintain it's better than censorship because no one can be trusted to decide what's misinformation and what isn't. I certainly wouldn't trust any government or organisation such as the WHO. They all have an agenda.

[coppice]

The issue with the conspiracy theories is that the internet has done what it promised and given a voice to marginalized groups. The problem is some of those groups were marginalized for a good reason. It's easy to ignore the weirdo standing on the street corner holding a sign saying something outlandish, it's a lot harder when conspiracy theories are spread all over social media and get presented as fact.

That's a problem, but I still maintain it's better than censorship because no one can be trusted to decide what's misinformation and what isn't. I certainly wouldn't trust any government or organisation such as the WHO. They all have an agenda.

They are just working for the common good, trying to create so much BS we can run the whole planet on sustainable organic waste.

[nctnico]

The issue with the conspiracy theories is that the internet has done what it promised and given a voice to marginalized groups. The problem is some of those groups were marginalized for a good reason. It's easy to ignore the weirdo standing on the street corner holding a sign saying something outlandish, it's a lot harder when conspiracy theories are spread all over social media and get presented as fact.

That's a problem, but I still maintain it's better than censorship because no one can be trusted to decide what's misinformation and what isn't. I certainly wouldn't trust any government or organisation such as the WHO. They all have an agenda.

You better start at education then. Nowadays the stuff taught in schools  is much less extensive compared to -say- 30 years ago. Young people have way less knowledge to determine what to trust and what not. So either way the younger generation is screwed.