Elon Musk is a nice chap

[JohnnyMalaria]

BS. Having Asperger's doesn't make you a dick. Musk may have Asperger's and he is a dick. The two aren't related.

Engineering is full of people with high-functioning autism. It's a field they find challenging and social skills are not as important as is knowing the tech.
I've worked with many and have friends with it, as HFA and this Asperger's Syndrome that seems to be the latest fad excuse for being a dickhead.

I find they are highly intelligent, but not at all smart or practical. Example is one engineer made his own operating system as a fork from Linux. Yes intelligent and a good challenge but a stupid move for a hundred reasons. "Look at me, I made an operating system!".

Their Kryptonite is their ego and getting attention. They simply can't get enough attention and think they are the greatest. Smoke a joint during an interview, load up $1.5B on BitCoin... meanwhile Tesla's had a 12V lead-acid battery in them for many years lol.
Musk can launch a Tesla complete with mannequin "Starman" and try slingshot it to Mars but you have to admit, it's a complete waste and just corny.

They are almost sociopathic in their non-regard for other people's feelings, so I say they are dickheads due to genetics.
Zuckerburg could care less about your feelings/rights regarding privacy.
The ultimate CEO is a psychopath with their aggression and robot-like emotions, so I think Asperger's and HFA types are really going to keep thriving there.

This is one of the most uneducated and offensive statements I've come across in a long time.

[floobydust]

Kindly elaborate - did I offend the god known as Elon Musk, or all with Asperger's etc. ?

[DrG]

I was ok with "Engineering is full of people". 

[ajb]

Kindly elaborate - did I offend the god known as Elon Musk, or all with Asperger's etc. ?

The autism spectrum (on which Asperger's exists) is far more complicated than your characterization here admits.  You may have accurately characterized a select few people who have/identify as having/exhibit behaviors consistent with Asperger's, which may be all you intended, but your language in the post does not make that clear.  It sounds an awful lot like you're characterizing all people with Asperger's or otherwise on the "high functioning" end of the autism spectrum, in which case your description is reductionist and horribly offensive. 

(Side note: The idea of "high functioning" versus "low functioning" is pretty widely rejected among autistic people, as it oversimplifies the diversity of autism spectrum disorders, and reinforces the one-dimensional idea that there is a sliding scale of functionality within the autism spectrum which is heavily associated with a worldview where a person's worth or social value is dependent on their ability to "function", which is to say do productive labor, instead of an innate property of them being a human being.  In reality, autism spectrum disorders can present with a wide range of challenges, delays, difficulties in different areas compared to the neurotypical condition, and "functioning" doesn't capture enough of that diversity to be useful in actually helping people who need support.  Instead, it's more useful to talk about specific support needs an individual may require, and if you need to generalize then it's better to think in terms of a person having high support needs than being "low functioning".) 

It is true that there are people who conflate an Asperger's diagnosis with just being a dick, and even some (relatively few) people with Asperger's do use that diagnosis as an excuse to be assholes.  Neither of those is okay, nor does it reflect any real medical/scientific perspective on Asperger's or ASD in general.  The fact that a person on the autism spectrum may *appear* to be an insensitive or egotistical jerk because they don't have the ability to handle social cues the way that neurotypical people do is not the same thing.  Which of those categories your coworkers/friends fall into I can't say, but I think it's pretty safe to say that the vast majority of people on the autism spectrum are not egotistical pricks!  Instead, the prevailing experience is one of substantial difficulty in fitting in and making strong social connections in a world where certain types of social interaction that happen to be extremely difficult or impossible is the glue that holds people together, and this difficulty scales depending on the type of ASD the person has and--here's where we get to Elon Musk--whether or not it's accompanied by "useful" talents.  Furthermore, the "egotistical dick" perception of people with Asperger's often comes from or is reinforced by that very difficulty with social interaction, and missed social cues, which can be difficult for neurotypical people to handle.  If you're accustomed to dealing only with neurotypical people, it's very easy to assume that someone who doesn't pick up on social cues is just being rude when the reality is that the person may simply not even be aware of those cues.  The solution is often very simple, which is to just be more literal or explicit with that person.  This usually makes neurotypical people feel like they're being rude, but is really just adapting to the other person's communicative capabilities, like writing instead of speaking when communicating with a person who is hard of hearing.

Furthermore, the people you've worked with are not indicative of all people with Asperger's or ASD because they're specifically also engineers (presumably decent ones, if they're holding a job despite whatever behavior led you characterize them as "dickheads"), and having those sorts of marketable skills and the ability to leverage them in a career leads to a much different experience for an otherwise similar person with ASD who lacks those skills.  So you've crafted this idea of people with Asperger's or ASD as a whole based on really a quite narrow slice of the spectrum in total ignorance of the rest of the spectrum of experience, which exhibits a vast diversity far beyond the simple "doesn't get along with others" view you have here.  In reality, you probably know quite a few other people on the "high functioning" end of the autism spectrum that you'd never suspect as such because they don't have the narrow (bordering on caricature) range of signs you're familiar with.  Some may not even be aware of it themselves, because they've been able to adapt enough, and some may struggle silently to avoid ignorant people like you labeling them as dickheads just because they have brains that work differently from yours.

If you would like to gain a more nuanced understanding of Asperger's, the autism spectrum in general, and what life is like for autistic people, I encourage you to go straight to the source and learn from the autistic people who are out there advocating for themselves.  The Autistic Self Advocacy Network is a good place to start: https://autisticadvocacy.org/about-asan/about-autism/

[nctnico]

Correction: Elon Musk is a billionaire delusional moron.

Depends on where the money comes from. A person who made it to a billionaire on his/her own can not be a moron. Actually Musk is quite smart to make lots of money from crappy products. Who likes Paypal? And if you look at car reliability / service level then Tesla is at the wrong end of the rankings. For an autistic person Musk seems to be able to understand how to hype stuff to people pretty well.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Kindly elaborate - did I offend the god known as Elon Musk, or all with Asperger's etc. ?

Well,

I find they are highly intelligent, but not at all smart or practical.

Their Kryptonite is their ego and getting attention.

They are almost sociopathic in their non-regard for other people's feelings, so I say they are dickheads due to genetics.

Pretty clear you weren't just alluding to Musk.

Most people I know that I am aware of as having a diagnosis for Asperger's are not dicks, they are not sociopaths and they are smart. They also find themselves living in an often alien, confusing and hostile world. I have a different diagnosis but it shares similar social struggles so I understand. When I read such outlandishly ignorant generalizations as posted here, I find it highly offensive.

Also note that Asperger's is no longer an official diagnosis in the US (using the current DSM).

[james_s]

Depends on where the money comes from. A person who made it to a billionaire on his/her own can not be a moron. Actually Musk is quite smart to make lots of money from crappy products. Who likes Paypal? And if you look at car reliability / service level then Tesla is at the wrong end of the rankings. For an autistic person Musk seems to be able to understand how to hype stuff to people pretty well.

I like Paypal, at least relative to other similar services. I've used it for quite a few years now as a convenient way of sending and receiving money, both in doing business and for exchanging money with friends.

I can't speak for the reliability of Tesla cars having not had any long term experience with one however I did get to drive a Model Y for a few days recently and frankly I was totally blown away by the performance. It is the fastest and most responsive vehicle I have ever driven by a wide margin, and it was the long range model, not even the high performance one. I really hate the touchscreen and lack of physical controls on the dash but the driving experience is an absolute pleasure. It is so smooth and quiet, and the throttle response is insane, the smooth continuous push of acceleration with no gear changes and no engine noise feels like a jet accelerating down the runway to take off. I've driven some rather powerful cars and they all feel slow and laggy now in comparison. I'd seriously consider buying a model 3 some day if not for the stupid touchscreen interface.

Say what you will about Musk's personality but I can't claim to have social skills any better than him (and I also have Aspergers so in a sense I can relate), and he has been more successful than any of us here as far as I know. Frankly I think most people who dislike him are simply jealous. 

[james_s]

While I do agree it's delusional, back in the day when they were talking about going to the moon people thought the same thing, I think that's where the word "lunatic" comes from.   

IIRC it's much older than that, and comes from the belief that crazy behavior is caused by the moon, in a similar sense as astrology. There's a very old superstition regarding a full moon and strange things happening.

[james_s]

Fact is, most of the people are not green activists. They don't want to spend their limited time and resources going out of their way to worry about when and where they will charge the car. They just ignore electric as a toy for rich and geeks and green loonies and zip along happy in their ICE cars that are simple and work... And are cheaper despite green propaganda.
As soon as there is a charging socket at EVERY parking spot in my city, and as soon as a small electric car that has 400km range will cost LESS than ICE car (to account for inconvenience) then people will probably start to switch at faster rate.
They can write all the studies they want, truth is people are not switching because it is NOT better for consumer (yet). So either you simply BAN all privately owned ICE cars and force it to be single choice, or make it really more affordable. People are clever, if it really was cheaper and really usable in real life, it would be more of them. It is not. Yet. Those that have it now already have their own facilities to charge (or have one available) and are willing to do the mindset change and are usually have another ICE car they can use in case electric is not ready.

I see this is turning into another EV vs ICE religious war, with people blinded by belief, who will not be swayed by data either way. I will say this though, the first person I knew to buy an EV is also the most conservative guy in my circle of friends and he is anything but a "green activist". He bought a lightly used Spark EV because he did the math and it worked out substantially cheaper to him. It's one of 3 cars he and his wife own and it's the one he uses for all the running around doing errands, taking his kid to events, dropping by my place, etc, he's had it for several years now and loves it, to the point that his wife wants a Tesla when it's time to replace her VW. The thing he raves about the most is that he never has to go get gas, he just plugs it in in his carport when he gets home and it charges overnight and just behind that, the fact that it requires almost zero maintenance. I had a similar experience when I had my late father's Tesla for a while, I worked out that it cost me about $8.50 in electricity to fully charge it up to over 300 miles of range from almost empty, compared to $60-$70 that it would cost to fill a similar size car with gasoline. Compared to keeping my long paid for conventional car, it makes no economic sense, but if I were going to even consider buying a brand new car, I'm pretty certain I'd go electric. After driving one around for a bit, suddenly engines seem a lot less appealing. The EV has no oil to change or leak, no belts, no hot, high pressure hoses to burst, no air filter, no throttle body or EGR to gum up, no injectors to clog, no transmission or clutch to slip, none of the stuff that has caused me grief over the years and again the greatest appeal for me would be no hassle of getting gas. As petty as it sounds I HATE getting gas and always have, it's a hassle that I always seem to put off until I'm running on fumes. I would LOVE if I could trickle fuel into my car overnight in my driveway even if it meant giving up the ability to use gas stations at all, the concept has a lot of things going for it.

[RJSV]

Yeah, Mars is (marginally) potential 'usable', and so I don't discount those statements, made by Elon Musk and others. Critics of Mars colony ideas now reminded me of what was said, circa 1990, when the Neptune and Uranus photo fly-bys were accomplished:

   "SOON, we will have humans living on (all) the other planets out there..."
Now that's a quickly disproven speculation, as Neptune's strong gravity (and indeed lack of solid surface on that gas giant) makes surface life impossible.
   But, they still speculated, back in 1990 that limitations would be overcome, while now a Mars focus could actually be practical.

  Myself, living long term with moderate depression symptoms, I would probably find the dimmer SUN light
on Mars to be a deal breaker.

   MARS PRISONS     Now that seems 'easy' to speculate about.
At any rate, I think speculating about Mars advantages is worth while... How much does that cost, a bit of exploration, and tech work, producing better space suits, and other safety related innovations?
I do think we can afford checking things out, and many folks would go, when the time comes.

[nctnico]

Depends on where the money comes from. A person who made it to a billionaire on his/her own can not be a moron. Actually Musk is quite smart to make lots of money from crappy products. Who likes Paypal? And if you look at car reliability / service level then Tesla is at the wrong end of the rankings. For an autistic person Musk seems to be able to understand how to hype stuff to people pretty well.

I like Paypal, at least relative to other similar services. I've used it for quite a few years now as a convenient way of sending and receiving money, both in doing business and for exchanging money with friends.

Try and contact customer service... I very much prefer wire-transfer (which works much better in Europe and for international webshops like Mouser, Amazon, Aliexpress, etc). In the end Paypal is just a stop-gap solution for the poorly operating banking system in the US.

I can't speak for the reliability of Tesla cars having not had any long term experience with one

Just look at the consumer reports. At the main airport of the NL they used to have nearly 100 Model-S as taxis. Those are all gone; the legal battles due to excessive down time & repair costs with Tesla are still going.

[msuffidy]

I feel like saying 'You taught me how to dream'. He was on SNL like he was admining a Mars colony. Let's see you do that.

[joseph nicholas]

Despite what people who make films, what people say in polite conversation and what the lib tards on the news would have you believe the vast majority of people on the spectrum suffer from learning disabilities which preclude them from abstract thinking and communicative skill.

[Red Squirrel]

I think the EV debate depends on too many things and it depends on the location and the person.  Where I live EVs are barely seen on the road new.  That means there is not going to be much of a used market for a long time.  I can't justify buying a new car, it's just such a huge expense that takes a long time to pay off, for something that will not last my life time.  So I always buy used, like in the 5-10k range.  My F150 was kind of an exception, at around 14k, and honestly I have buyer's remorse because I'm still paying that down, should have went with a small car instead.   

Even if I was to buy an electric which seem to start at like 50k here for a base model, even considering the gas savings I don't think I will break even in my life time.  I don't drive that much. Suppose if I did buy EV I would be tempted to drive more knowing it's cheaper to drive and also not bad for the environment, so there's that... but really I just can't justify buying an EV at this point.  I would LOVE one.  The Cybertruck would be pretty fun I think, but it's just a crazy amount of money that will take a good part of my life to pay for. 

If I won the lottery or a big sum of money, then yeah I would buy an EV. 

I've been saving up for off grid land and once I find something and actually start living off grid then I won't have as many expenses, so saving up for stuff will be more realistic, then I might get an EV.  Costs of living just keep going up so I have no money to buy a brand new vehicle so I stick to used.

Now for someone that does Skip deliveries, or Uber etc, it probably does make sense to buy a new EV.  I sometimes actually toy with that idea as I could do deliveries at night after my work.

[bdunham7]

I'd seriously consider buying a model 3 some day if not for the stupid touchscreen interface.

There are other EVs.  Ford Mach E, for example.  We have a non-Tesla EV and it has those same driving characteristics, although on a lesser scale for power and range--and price.  7 years of very reliable service and 'normal-ish' controls including voice controls that work reliably, although I don't use them much.  Yes, Tesla has pushed certain boundaries with EVs, especially battery tech, but the case for them is often wildly overstated.  To read the news you would think that soon all cars will be Tesla, when in fact their global sales are less than Volvo.

Frankly I think most people who dislike him are simply jealous.

I can respect the success of his companies, and to the extent he is responsible, for his success and vision.  Of course with multi-billions of dollars you can hire some talent.  However I dislike him because I think he is a manipulative liar and con man with very little regard for individuals other than himself.  I've met my share of people, mostly political types, that want the glory of saving humankind without the bother of giving a f&%k about any actual humans. 

[james_s]

Try and contact customer service... I very much prefer wire-transfer (which works much better in Europe and for international webshops like Mouser, Amazon, Aliexpress, etc). In the end Paypal is just a stop-gap solution for the poorly operating banking system in the US.

Try and contact customer service at just about any tech company these days, it's a total nightmare. Even the ones that actually have a phone number you can call trap you in an automated loop hell that tries to solve your problem but is absolutely useless once the problem is complex enough that I'd want to call. When my dad passed away I spent many hours  trying to get in touch with various companies he had accounts with to cancel this and that and it was incredibly frustrating just trying to talk to somebody.

Wire transfer is not really a thing here, I mean it is, but it's very, very rarely used to transfer money between individuals. If you asked an American to wire transfer money to you they'd most likely assume you to be a scammer, and for good reason, it's almost exclusively scammers here that will ask anyone to wire them money.

Now that's not to say that Paypal is some kind of fantastic company, but they provide a useful service and I've used them for many years now without any problems.

[james_s]

There are other EVs.  Ford Mach E, for example.  We have a non-Tesla EV and it has those same driving characteristics, although on a lesser scale for power and range--and price.  7 years of very reliable service and 'normal-ish' controls including voice controls that work reliably, although I don't use them much.  Yes, Tesla has pushed certain boundaries with EVs, especially battery tech, but the case for them is often wildly overstated.  To read the news you would think that soon all cars will be Tesla, when in fact their global sales are less than Volvo.

Tesla has the voice controls too, and while it works reasonably well, voice control is probably the only interface I loathe more than touchscreens. You have to learn exactly what to ask it, and it turns the radio volume way down every time you push the button to give it a command, which I find super annoying, I mean just let me turn the damn headlights off without muting the radio and poking at a giant tablet, it's maddening. Oh and if you have passengers you have to tell them to shut up first too because it will pick up any conversations going on in the car and even song lyrics and voices on the radio sometimes even with the volume down. The fad right now is "clean" dashboards and it's ridiculous, there is great value in tactile controls that can be operated by feel without taking my eyes off the road. My car has rocker switches, sliders and knobs and I know where they are and what all of them do without looking at them.

I'd be curious to drive some of the other EVs and see how they compare. So far I've driven a Nissan Leaf, a Kia Soul EV, the Chevy Spark EV my friend has, and the Tesla Y and while the first three were decent cars, the Spark particularly peppy, the Tesla with its 4.8 second 0-60 time leaves them all in the dust. I mean that's practically supercar territory, faster than the iconic Lamborghini Countache and Ferrari Testarossa that were the hot cars everyone drooled over when I was a kid. Now do I need performance even close to that? No, obviously not, but it sure is fun, and that's really what I see a Tesla as, it's an expensive toy that you can also use to get around.

I have absolutely no use for all of the silly gadgets though, I don't think they'll ever get the self driving feature to actually be "fully self driving" and people are going to keep dying from trying to use the incorrectly named "fully self driving" autopilot without human intervention. The whole concept of the system is fatally flawed, it is totally unreasonable to expect a human driver to be paying attention and ready to take over at a moments notice without making them drive the car the rest of the time. I can think of few things more boring than sitting there supervising a system that doesn't need me to do anything 99% of the time.

[james_s]

I think the EV debate depends on too many things and it depends on the location and the person.  Where I live EVs are barely seen on the road new.  That means there is not going to be much of a used market for a long time.  I can't justify buying a new car, it's just such a huge expense that takes a long time to pay off, for something that will not last my life time.  So I always buy used, like in the 5-10k range.  My F150 was kind of an exception, at around 14k, and honestly I have buyer's remorse because I'm still paying that down, should have went with a small car instead.   

Even if I was to buy an electric which seem to start at like 50k here for a base model, even considering the gas savings I don't think I will break even in my life time.  I don't drive that much. Suppose if I did buy EV I would be tempted to drive more knowing it's cheaper to drive and also not bad for the environment, so there's that... but really I just can't justify buying an EV at this point.  I would LOVE one.  The Cybertruck would be pretty fun I think, but it's just a crazy amount of money that will take a good part of my life to pay for. 

If I won the lottery or a big sum of money, then yeah I would buy an EV. 

I've been saving up for off grid land and once I find something and actually start living off grid then I won't have as many expenses, so saving up for stuff will be more realistic, then I might get an EV.  Costs of living just keep going up so I have no money to buy a brand new vehicle so I stick to used.

Now for someone that does Skip deliveries, or Uber etc, it probably does make sense to buy a new EV.  I sometimes actually toy with that idea as I could do deliveries at night after my work.

I don't think I could ever bring myself to buy a brand new car simply on the principal of the matter, I'm more than happy to let somebody else take the huge depreciation hit. That said, I've spent my entire life driving cheap cars, the one I drove the most I paid $500 for and drove for 17 years before I got rear ended and totaled it, and then I got $6k from the insurance for it. My current car I think I paid $2500 for and I plan to keep it indefinitely so really if I splurged and spent $50k+ on a new car today I'd still come out ahead of most people in the long run. Also I bought my house in my mid 20s and am just a few years from having it paid off at which point I'll have plenty of disposable income assuming I can stay gainfully employed. One thing I would absolutely not ever do is take out a loan to buy a car, it's either cash or I don't buy.

If history is any indication, somebody will probably give me a broken EV at some point, I've gotten free cars on multiple occasions before, one of which was a trivial fix and I've had to turn down others simply because I had nowhere to park them.

[joseph nicholas]

Cars in places like NYC are so problematic its hardly worth it.  Everything directly or indirectly related has been so mushed up and vilified you may as well give the lawyers a blank check on your bank account. 

[EEVblog]

While I do agree it's delusional, back in the day when they were talking about going to the moon people thought the same thing, I think that's where the word "lunatic" comes from.   

So honestly I'm willing to give him the chance and see if he can really make it happen.  I don't think it will happen any time soon but I think we will live to see it.

Most of the issues are readily knowable, there is little mystery in terms of how stupidly hard it is make a colony happen if you actually look at the logistics and engineering instead of the dream.
Simple basic things like calculating food requirements alone for a small colony make you throw your hands up.
I could happen through shear brute force of sending so much stuff and supplies from earth, but no one is going to pay for that, not even Elon.
No bucks, no Buck Rogers.


A working colony on the moon is vastly easier because of the distance, and most likely financially viable through tourism.
A sustainable colony on Mars is a pipe dream, and I'm a huge proponent of going to mars.

[Ed.Kloonk]

My $0.02

How can you be critical of Musk for bringing a brand of electric car to life? Other car makers seem to be offering battery powered cars as a symbolic gesture. And a good portion of that is because of the existence of the Tesla.

How can you realistically attack Musk's character when there is video of a confused lady pulling up to a gas pump in a model S?

To be jealous of Musk and his billions means you suck at life. Telsa cars are not cheap. Yet, someone who has managed to procure one roams the earth and does not understand how to re-fuel it.

Musk is picking up where NASA left off. You could say that the American tax payer was hoodwinked into funding the space program with only a handful of moon landings to show for it. But look at the aftermath. The invention of the intergrated circuit. The computer industry. The PC revolution. Many other innovations.

Like him or not, Musk is forcing gasoline car makers to sharpen their pencils. The size of the industry tied to oil can afford to campaign against Musk. Many engineers are falling for the trap that the oil industry refuses to move beyond the economics of last century.

[Jan Audio]

He is saving all the exhaust fumes from cars to waste in 1 rocket flight.

[bdunham7]

How can you be critical of Musk for bringing a brand of electric car to life? Other car makers seem to be offering battery powered cars as a symbolic gesture. And a good portion of that is because of the existence of the Tesla.

Who is basing their criticism on that?  And as for Tesla 'leading the way', the relatively affordable Nissan Leaf came out several years before the Model S and outsold Tesla until a few years ago.  Certainly Tesla has changed the game, but they didn't create it.  Arguably the current electric car market was created by the government of California which refused to back down from their EV mandates again like they did 20 years ago.  Without that mandate and the tax credits, Tesla would still be retrofitting a handful of Lotus gliders, if that.

How can you realistically attack Musk's character when there is video of a confused lady pulling up to a gas pump in a model S?
To be jealous of Musk and his billions means you suck at life. Telsa cars are not cheap. Yet, someone who has managed to procure one roams the earth and does not understand how to re-fuel it.

That argument seems entirely incoherent to me.  What do any of those things have to do with one another?  It is perfectly possible to be talented and successful and still be a raging jackass.  I've no idea what a video of an unknown confused driver has to do with anything.

[nctnico]

While I do agree it's delusional, back in the day when they were talking about going to the moon people thought the same thing, I think that's where the word "lunatic" comes from.   

So honestly I'm willing to give him the chance and see if he can really make it happen.  I don't think it will happen any time soon but I think we will live to see it.

Most of the issues are readily knowable, there is little mystery in terms of how stupidly hard it is make a colony happen if you actually look at the logistics and engineering instead of the dream.
Simple basic things like calculating food requirements alone for a small colony make you throw your hands up.
I could happen through shear brute force of sending so much stuff and supplies from earth, but no one is going to pay for that, not even Elon.

The things is that Musk never pays for his own dreams. He always gets others to pony up the money. And since many of his dreams lead to something tangible at some point, he has a pretty good track record. Musk is just too optimistic about the schedule but that is typical American salesmenship. If things get too hot under his feet he comes up with stuff like a flame thrower or a crazy car design that never meets any safety standard. Beads and mirrors still work and Musk knows that damn well.

[SiliconWizard]

And, I think most people are missing Musk's point and objectives.
Does he say what he says because he is delusional, or because it's the only way of getting enough funds for his projects?
We probably have to ask ourselves who is really being delusional here. As he failed to get those funds so far? Not really.