Author Topic: Elon Musk is a nice chap  (Read 144705 times)

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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1125 on: December 03, 2022, 10:18:50 am »
claims Hitler was an alright guy? 

Wow did he really tweet that?
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Online wraper

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1126 on: December 03, 2022, 10:59:25 am »
claims Hitler was an alright guy? 

Wow did he really tweet that?
He said it on Alex Jones show, so even Alex Jones distanced himself from what Kanye was saying.
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1598387179582939137
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1598371503652933647
 
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Online xrunner

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1127 on: December 03, 2022, 11:58:46 am »
claims Hitler was an alright guy? 

Wow did he really tweet that?
He said it on Alex Jones show, so even Alex Jones distanced himself from what Kanye was saying.
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1598387179582939137
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1598371503652933647

He also stated that Hitler invented the microphone.  :-DD :-DD :-DD
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
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Online tom66

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1128 on: December 03, 2022, 02:18:20 pm »
Kanye:
"I see good things about Hitler.  They [the Nazis] did good things too. Every human being has value that they brought to the table, especially Hitler. We've got to stop dissing the Nazis all the time."
 

Online TimFox

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1129 on: December 03, 2022, 03:12:41 pm »
Before the current political climate, I had predicted that eventually the public opinion of Hitler would shift to "he had good ideas, but he went too far".
I thought that it wouldn't happen during my lifetime, but I was too optimistic.
On a group tour of Paris, one of the group wondered why Hitler had not destroyed the Arc de Triomphe.
I replied that Napoleon was Hitler's role model.
By that time, the public view of Napoleon had already shifted.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1130 on: December 03, 2022, 06:38:04 pm »
Kanye:
"I see good things about Hitler.  They [the Nazis] did good things too. Every human being has value that they brought to the table, especially Hitler. We've got to stop dissing the Nazis all the time."

Ok the first half I agree with, they did some good things. Then he went off the rails, stop dissing Nazis? To say the handful of good things they contributed is overshadowed by the bad would be a massive understatement.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1131 on: December 03, 2022, 08:47:00 pm »
I see the normalization of the phrase "But he went too far" as very insidious.
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Offline Bud

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1132 on: December 03, 2022, 09:27:03 pm »
On a group tour of Paris, one of the group wondered why Hitler had not destroyed the Arc de Triomphe.
Before getting involved in politics he was a painter and wanted to become an architect. As an EE do you like throwing electronics into dumpster?
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Online TimFox

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1133 on: December 03, 2022, 09:39:15 pm »
On a group tour of Paris, one of the group wondered why Hitler had not destroyed the Arc de Triomphe.
Before getting involved in politics he was a painter and wanted to become an architect. As an EE do you like throwing electronics into dumpster?

The reason for the original question was the list of 158 French victories over various German armies during the Napoleonic Wars (e.g., Austerlitz).
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1134 on: December 03, 2022, 10:05:50 pm »
The reason for the original question was the list of 158 French victories over various German armies during the Napoleonic Wars (e.g., Austerlitz).

I'm not really sure that matters. I would not destroy art or architecture just because it was made by or to honor someone I did not particularly like, especially if I found it aesthetically pleasing. The nazis had an appreciation for classical artwork, they looted large quantities of it from countries they invaded.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1135 on: December 03, 2022, 10:12:07 pm »
Kanye:
"I see good things about Hitler.  They [the Nazis] did good things too. Every human being has value that they brought to the table, especially Hitler. We've got to stop dissing the Nazis all the time."

Ok the first half I agree with, they did some good things. Then he went off the rails, stop dissing Nazis? To say the handful of good things they contributed is overshadowed by the bad would be a massive understatement.
Hitler did one good thing---he shot himself in the head!
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1136 on: December 03, 2022, 10:21:18 pm »
Hitler did one good thing---he shot himself in the head!

Well that was a good outcome, although I would have preferred to see him stand trial for war crimes rather than taking he easy way out but the world was a better place with him gone for sure.

I'm sure there are more good or at least not bad things if you looked though. Even the most evil people typically have SOME redeeming qualities. As someone else mentioned he was a painter (though apparently not a particularly good one) before he ever got into politics, I would say that painting pictures is generally a good thing. The development of the VW Beetle was overseen by him, that I would argue was an overall positive for the world, bringing affordable transportation to millions around the world. The world is not binary, overall terrible people sometimes do good things and overall good people sometimes do terrible things. A lot of people seem to get hung up on absolutes and see things in black and white and that just isn't the way the world is.
 
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Online TimFox

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1137 on: December 03, 2022, 10:28:17 pm »
The reason for the original question was the list of 158 French victories over various German armies during the Napoleonic Wars (e.g., Austerlitz).

I'm not really sure that matters. I would not destroy art or architecture just because it was made by or to honor someone I did not particularly like, especially if I found it aesthetically pleasing. The nazis had an appreciation for classical artwork, they looted large quantities of it from countries they invaded.

Historically, victorious armies have often destroyed, damaged, defaced, or desecrated the monuments previously erected by the losers.
This was a Bad Thing.
There is confusion about various legends from antiquity where the winner demolished the city and sowed the land with salt after defeating the losers, to keep the land useless thereafter.
In the last century, we have the well-documented story of the Red Guards in the Cultural Revolution.
The Nazis destroyed monuments when they were winning the war, and after the war most of the Nazi monuments were destroyed by the victors.
I certainly would never accuse you of such deviltry.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 11:28:25 pm by TimFox »
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1138 on: December 03, 2022, 10:52:52 pm »
Godwin's law still going strong. :-DD
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1139 on: December 03, 2022, 11:57:28 pm »
The same point could be illustrated with someone less infamous, even a hypothetical fictional person. Let's say this person develops a cure for cancer and later is found to be a prolific child molester or serial killer. Are they a good person? Probably not. Did they do some good things? Yes, absolutely. Is the world a better place overall because of them? That is not so easily answered. People are not "good" or "bad", they consist of a mix of good things and bad things, the ratio of which determines how relatively good or bad they are.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1140 on: December 04, 2022, 12:08:05 am »
The same point could be illustrated with someone less infamous, even a hypothetical fictional person. Let's say this person develops a cure for cancer and later is found to be a prolific child molester or serial killer. Are they a good person? Probably not. Did they do some good things? Yes, absolutely. Is the world a better place overall because of them? That is not so easily answered. People are not "good" or "bad", they consist of a mix of good things and bad things, the ratio of which determines how relatively good or bad they are.

One example I mention when this comes up is one Alan Turing. I know times are different now.
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Offline james_s

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1141 on: December 04, 2022, 12:12:03 am »
One example I mention when this comes up is one Alan Turing. I know times are different now.

Was there something bad that he did? He was gay and that was illegal where he lived at the time, but it seems pretty harmless in itself. I don't know if he engaged in activities that actually harmed anybody though.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1142 on: December 04, 2022, 12:38:16 am »
One example I mention when this comes up is one Alan Turing. I know times are different now.

Was there something bad that he did? He was gay and that was illegal where he lived at the time, but it seems pretty harmless in itself. I don't know if he engaged in activities that actually harmed anybody though.

Well, I'm just saying the establishment that truly felt that Turing was harming society is the same bunch of turds that even today is still barging into your life and telling you how to live it. I just think they should be made to recognize that.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 12:40:10 am by Ed.Kloonk »
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1143 on: December 04, 2022, 01:56:51 am »
OK, let's go with Jeffery Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, or for an Oz touch, David & Catherine Birnie, Ivan Milat, & perhaps, John Wayne Glover.
(The "Duke" would be horrified that his name was given to two different serial killers in separate countries.)

What "good things" did any of them do?
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1144 on: December 04, 2022, 02:02:35 am »

What "good things" did any of them do?

Raise personal safety awareness to such a high level that the nanny state could only dream about.
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Offline themadhippy

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1145 on: December 04, 2022, 02:22:32 am »
Quote
I don't know if he engaged in activities that actually harmed anybody though.
I'd bet his  activities at blechley park  harmed 1 or 2
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1146 on: December 04, 2022, 02:55:47 am »
 Musk Just opened up the -HunterBiden-twitter-dirty laundry  files
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1147 on: December 04, 2022, 08:24:29 am »

What "good things" did any of them do?

Raise personal safety awareness to such a high level that the nanny state could only dream about.

I dunno, the current generation of youth seem to believe all those sort of things "happen to someone else".
When I was a kid "we didn't need no steenkin 'nanny state' ", as my parents warned me about there being dangerous people around.
After all serial killers have been around for many years, dating back to "Snowy" Rowles in the late 1920s/early '30s, and others before him.
There seemed to be a break, at least in WA, in the 1950s, coming back with a bang with Eric Edgar Cooke in the early 1960s.

People in this country were a bit wary about hitchiking in the 1960s, after a few well known incidents in various States, so I was amazed in the 1970s, by how readily people in the UK  & Ireland trusted their safety to some random stranger. :palm:

Apart from the "boogeyman" we learnt to face oncoming traffic when walking on roads with no Footpath ("sidewalk"), to step off the road when a car approached, & to look both ways before crossing -----the young dumbos these days are just as likely to wander up the middle of an unlit road at night,whilst wearing dark clothes, or ride a stupid "scooter" the wrong way!

Another delight is those who ride variously unlit pushbikes or unlit, unlicensed "dirt bikes" around suburban streets after dark.
The two together is a recipe for disaster, but if one of them gets hurt, or worse, killed, "it's someone else's fault"!

And, while I'm on the subject "they can get off my lawn!" >:( >:(
 
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Online PlainName

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1148 on: December 04, 2022, 10:44:04 am »
OK, let's go with Jeffery Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, or for an Oz touch, David & Catherine Birnie, Ivan Milat, & perhaps, John Wayne Glover.
(The "Duke" would be horrified that his name was given to two different serial killers in separate countries.)

What "good things" did any of them do?

Why did they have to do any good? Come to that, why does a generally good person have to do any bad? I think Ed's james_s' point (and if he wasn't making it, I am) was that there is a range and you'll get people totally at one end or the other along with most people somewhere between. A bell curve, no doubt.

[edit: got names wrong]
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 12:02:56 am by PlainName »
 
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1149 on: December 04, 2022, 02:35:22 pm »
No long term studies have been done. The problem with affirmation is it invariably leads people down the path of irreversible medical treatments. It was reading the studies and applying critical thinking which made me change my mind. We don't affirm someone who wants a limb amputated or blinded, because they have transablism and sex shouldn't be any different.
Actually, there are long term studies, showing 40% attempted suicide rate by transgender people.
The same rate is 31% for people with gender dysphoria. Both is staggeringly high, and these people are not getting the help that they would actually need.

I don't know what study you're referring to.  In the US, this study was performed which indicated a reduction in feeling suicidal (or having taken steps toward suicide) by 60%:
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/930195

Quote
A study abstract to be presented at the 2021 American Academy of Pediatrics National Conference & Exhibition found no effect on generalized anxiety over the 12-month study period.

Not a long term study. I rest my case.

Show me a randomised study, with a 10 year follow-up period. Given the permanence of these treatments it's vitally important to look at the long term prognosis to make good judgements based on the risk vs benefit.

Quote
There's no doubt that GD is a serious mental illness and no one (sensible) is claiming otherwise; and it definitely carries a higher rate of suicide and self-harm.  But we don't ignore serious mental illnesses for a good reason, we try to treat them.  If you actually cared about trans youth suicide rates, you would take into account the current evidence, not just your feelings about man = male and so on.  These studies are not made by the woke "academiati" who want to make everyone a peace-loving vegan who hates right-wingers; they're made by the top academics studying in their field, who have looked at the evidence, met the patients, and seen how effective the right treatment can be.  Maybe in 20 years we'll have a wonder one-shot drug or therapy that cures GD and reassigns everyone back to their bio sex, but we certainly don't have that now.

And as for the comparison made by another poster, of treating anorexia by telling people they're fat (?), I'm really not sure why anyone would think that would work, but the good news is there is a body of research on that which points towards body positivity being a good thing.  That doesn't mean you just accept anyone and everyone but generally lean towards trying to help before criticism.
Woke ideology is a significant problem in academia and is infecting medicine too. The recently closed Tavistock Clinic was a classic example of this.

For mental disorders, surrounding one's perception of their body, treatment generally revolve around self-acceptance, not modifying their body to suit. There's no reason why sex should be any different. Heck, when I suffered from an eating disorder, diet pills probably would have made me feel happier during the short term, but would obviously have harmed me in the long run.

Body positivity is definitely good with regards to self-acceptance and avoiding disordered eating. The problem is, people who encourage others to adopt more healthy lifestyles have been demonised.

Gender dysphoria isn't always present in trans people. Male to female transitioners often have autogynephilia, sexual arousal, at the seeing themselves as female, hence the hypersexualised portrayal of biological women, by many transwomen. Female to male transistioners are more likely to have other mental health problems such as eating disorders and autism.

What about women's spaces? Do you really think men won't use the pretence of being trans as a cover to access female spaces? I personally know women who've been assaulted by men claiming to be women, in female toilets. A woman was raped in hospital by a male patient who was placed in a women's ward, because he claimed he was trans. To make matters worse, the police didn't believe her, because the hospital told the police there were no men on the ward.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

This doesn't mean that government policies were right, or wrong - just that the censorship on social media debate has been raging for ages.  Honestly, it sounds like you either want there to be absolutely no censorship (in which case one could just acuse anyone of something, and calling others to burn their house down) or it's just you don't like it when the posts you agree with are censored?
Dave has already said he doesn't want the pandemic discussed, so I won't respond to the other parts of your post.

I complain about all censorship. I wouldn't want a post supporting critical race theory (a vile, hateful ideology, akin to Nazism)  to censored, any more than I would someone who questioned the public health policy. The problem was censorship only worked one way.

claims Hitler was an alright guy? 

Wow did he really tweet that?
He said it on Alex Jones show, so even Alex Jones distanced himself from what Kanye was saying.
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1598387179582939137
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1598371503652933647

He also stated that Hitler invented the microphone.  :-DD :-DD :-DD
West clearly has a mental illness. He needs help, not ridicule. The problem is getting him to see that and accept help. It's not going to end well.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 07:42:35 pm by Zero999 »
 


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