Author Topic: Elon Musk is a nice chap  (Read 141474 times)

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Offline Zero999

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1150 on: December 04, 2022, 02:35:22 pm »
No long term studies have been done. The problem with affirmation is it invariably leads people down the path of irreversible medical treatments. It was reading the studies and applying critical thinking which made me change my mind. We don't affirm someone who wants a limb amputated or blinded, because they have transablism and sex shouldn't be any different.
Actually, there are long term studies, showing 40% attempted suicide rate by transgender people.
The same rate is 31% for people with gender dysphoria. Both is staggeringly high, and these people are not getting the help that they would actually need.

I don't know what study you're referring to.  In the US, this study was performed which indicated a reduction in feeling suicidal (or having taken steps toward suicide) by 60%:
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/930195

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A study abstract to be presented at the 2021 American Academy of Pediatrics National Conference & Exhibition found no effect on generalized anxiety over the 12-month study period.

Not a long term study. I rest my case.

Show me a randomised study, with a 10 year follow-up period. Given the permanence of these treatments it's vitally important to look at the long term prognosis to make good judgements based on the risk vs benefit.

Quote
There's no doubt that GD is a serious mental illness and no one (sensible) is claiming otherwise; and it definitely carries a higher rate of suicide and self-harm.  But we don't ignore serious mental illnesses for a good reason, we try to treat them.  If you actually cared about trans youth suicide rates, you would take into account the current evidence, not just your feelings about man = male and so on.  These studies are not made by the woke "academiati" who want to make everyone a peace-loving vegan who hates right-wingers; they're made by the top academics studying in their field, who have looked at the evidence, met the patients, and seen how effective the right treatment can be.  Maybe in 20 years we'll have a wonder one-shot drug or therapy that cures GD and reassigns everyone back to their bio sex, but we certainly don't have that now.

And as for the comparison made by another poster, of treating anorexia by telling people they're fat (?), I'm really not sure why anyone would think that would work, but the good news is there is a body of research on that which points towards body positivity being a good thing.  That doesn't mean you just accept anyone and everyone but generally lean towards trying to help before criticism.
Woke ideology is a significant problem in academia and is infecting medicine too. The recently closed Tavistock Clinic was a classic example of this.

For mental disorders, surrounding one's perception of their body, treatment generally revolve around self-acceptance, not modifying their body to suit. There's no reason why sex should be any different. Heck, when I suffered from an eating disorder, diet pills probably would have made me feel happier during the short term, but would obviously have harmed me in the long run.

Body positivity is definitely good with regards to self-acceptance and avoiding disordered eating. The problem is, people who encourage others to adopt more healthy lifestyles have been demonised.

Gender dysphoria isn't always present in trans people. Male to female transitioners often have autogynephilia, sexual arousal, at the seeing themselves as female, hence the hypersexualised portrayal of biological women, by many transwomen. Female to male transistioners are more likely to have other mental health problems such as eating disorders and autism.

What about women's spaces? Do you really think men won't use the pretence of being trans as a cover to access female spaces? I personally know women who've been assaulted by men claiming to be women, in female toilets. A woman was raped in hospital by a male patient who was placed in a women's ward, because he claimed he was trans. To make matters worse, the police didn't believe her, because the hospital told the police there were no men on the ward.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

This doesn't mean that government policies were right, or wrong - just that the censorship on social media debate has been raging for ages.  Honestly, it sounds like you either want there to be absolutely no censorship (in which case one could just acuse anyone of something, and calling others to burn their house down) or it's just you don't like it when the posts you agree with are censored?
Dave has already said he doesn't want the pandemic discussed, so I won't respond to the other parts of your post.

I complain about all censorship. I wouldn't want a post supporting critical race theory (a vile, hateful ideology, akin to Nazism)  to censored, any more than I would someone who questioned the public health policy. The problem was censorship only worked one way.

claims Hitler was an alright guy? 

Wow did he really tweet that?
He said it on Alex Jones show, so even Alex Jones distanced himself from what Kanye was saying.
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1598387179582939137
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1598371503652933647

He also stated that Hitler invented the microphone.  :-DD :-DD :-DD
West clearly has a mental illness. He needs help, not ridicule. The problem is getting him to see that and accept help. It's not going to end well.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 07:42:35 pm by Zero999 »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1151 on: December 04, 2022, 07:48:47 pm »
West clearly has a mental illness. He needs help, not ridicule. The problem is getting him to see that and accept help. It's not going to end well.

If he does turn out to have NPD which I suspect based on his behavior, it is essentially untreatable. Personality disorders involve fundamental differences in the low level wiring of the brain which occurs at an early age, 1-2 years old. The people that have it will very rarely accept that they have any kind of problem, their difficulties with personal relationships are always blamed on external causes and they seem to create their very own version of reality in their head to fit the way they feel, which they then perceive as the absolute truth. It's widely assumed that the vast majority of people with any of the cluster B disorders are never properly diagnosed because believing they are the sane ones, they so rarely seek any kind of mental health services. They are impulsive and completely self absorbed, they do not care or likely even comprehend the impact of their behavior and actions on others.

Personally I'm going to continue to ridicule him, it's not like he's ever going to know anyway so what I say about him isn't going to have any impact on him.
 

Online TimFox

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1152 on: December 04, 2022, 07:53:17 pm »
He has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but apparently that was by a Jewish doctor.
(I don't need to make stuff up anymore.)
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1153 on: December 04, 2022, 07:57:34 pm »
OK, let's go with Jeffery Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, or for an Oz touch, David & Catherine Birnie, Ivan Milat, & perhaps, John Wayne Glover.
(The "Duke" would be horrified that his name was given to two different serial killers in separate countries.)

What "good things" did any of them do?

I don't know, I never met any of them, a few of them I've never even heard of. Maybe they did a good deed for somebody at some point in time? It's not beyond the realm of possibility. It's also possible that some or all of them were cold blooded sociopaths that were also not smart or motivated enough to contribute anything useful to society.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1154 on: December 04, 2022, 11:26:12 pm »
West clearly has a mental illness. He needs help, not ridicule. The problem is getting him to see that and accept help. It's not going to end well.

If he does turn out to have NPD which I suspect based on his behavior, it is essentially untreatable. Personality disorders involve fundamental differences in the low level wiring of the brain which occurs at an early age, 1-2 years old. The people that have it will very rarely accept that they have any kind of problem, their difficulties with personal relationships are always blamed on external causes and they seem to create their very own version of reality in their head to fit the way they feel, which they then perceive as the absolute truth. It's widely assumed that the vast majority of people with any of the cluster B disorders are never properly diagnosed because believing they are the sane ones, they so rarely seek any kind of mental health services. They are impulsive and completely self absorbed, they do not care or likely even comprehend the impact of their behavior and actions on others.

Personally I'm going to continue to ridicule him, it's not like he's ever going to know anyway so what I say about him isn't going to have any impact on him.
I thought he had bipolar disorder not NPD. He only started acting like this fairly recently.
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1155 on: December 04, 2022, 11:47:38 pm »
Musk Just opened up the -HunterBiden-twitter-dirty laundry  files
He's so desperate to divert attention away from his dire leadership, he'll try anything.
 

Online wraper

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1156 on: December 05, 2022, 12:56:13 am »
Musk Just opened up the -HunterBiden-twitter-dirty laundry  files
He's so desperate to divert attention away from his dire leadership, he'll try anything.
Twitter was violationg first amendment on behalf of democrats (government is not allowed to impede with free speech). Twitter employees were not even sure what rule to apply to block that information. Nothing to see there... Democrads good, Musk bad :palm:. Not to say your argument is just nonsencical, he gets attention to himself, not diverts it.
 

Offline John B

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1157 on: December 05, 2022, 01:16:54 am »
Perhaps the Americans can confirm, my understanding is that there are specific prohibitions on the US government using corporations and external entities to violate the constitution and 1st amendment by proxy.

Surely this is a tad more important than digs at Musk, even if he did want to draw the news cycle onto something else?
 

Offline vad

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1158 on: December 05, 2022, 02:03:11 am »
Twitter was violationg first amendment on behalf of democrats (government is not allowed to impede with free speech).
You are confusing public company with the government. To the same extent you can claim that Fox News “violated” the 1st on behave of Republican administration when Trump was POTUS, and CNN “violates” it on behalf of Democratic admins.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1159 on: December 05, 2022, 03:08:10 am »
I thought he had bipolar disorder not NPD. He only started acting like this fairly recently.

Maybe he does, I'm not a psychologist and couldn't properly diagnose him remotely even if I was. I do think it's clear that he has narcissistic traits, that can come in many forms.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1160 on: December 05, 2022, 03:12:08 am »
Twitter was violationg first amendment on behalf of democrats (government is not allowed to impede with free speech). Twitter employees were not even sure what rule to apply to block that information. Nothing to see there... Democrads good, Musk bad :palm:. Not to say your argument is just nonsencical, he gets attention to himself, not diverts it.

The First Amendment does not apply to Twitter which is a corporation, not a branch of the government. The amendment protects an individual against prosecution for speech, it does not prevent a company from controlling what you say on their platform. For example Dave can ban any topic he wants here and the Constitution would do nothing to prevent that, even if he was based in the USA.

I am generally a proponent of free speech, but the first amendment applies to specific circumstances, and Twitter is not one of those.
 
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Offline John B

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1161 on: December 05, 2022, 03:21:52 am »
The issue is that the DNC and biden staff sent communications to twitter staff instructing them to censor speech, hence the claim is infringing on the 1st amendment by proxy.
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1162 on: December 05, 2022, 03:22:09 am »
Twitter was violationg first amendment on behalf of democrats (government is not allowed to impede with free speech). Twitter employees were not even sure what rule to apply to block that information. Nothing to see there... Democrads good, Musk bad :palm:. Not to say your argument is just nonsencical, he gets attention to himself, not diverts it.

The First Amendment does not apply to Twitter which is a corporation, not a branch of the government. The amendment protects an individual against prosecution for speech, it does not prevent a company from controlling what you say on their platform. For example Dave can ban any topic he wants here and the Constitution would do nothing to prevent that, even if he was based in the USA.

Yep absolutely right, and that's how fantastically twisted the system can become when those rules are themselves twisted - while still being, technically, followed.

Once the government directly influences private corporations and censors free speech through them, then the government *is* violating the first amendment, but hiding behing a private corporation, it all looks legit. That is this part that is disgusting.

Otherwise I agree with such private platforms to do whatever they want, and if we don't like what they do, we can use other platforms.
But once governments have power over those platforms, then they are able to violate constitutions without much consequence. That's pretty bad. But that's absolutely expected: the opportunity is there, and they just seize it. The only way of preventing them from seizing the opportunity is to impeach them.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 03:23:57 am by SiliconWizard »
 
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Offline vad

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1163 on: December 05, 2022, 04:02:36 am »
Yep absolutely right, and that's how fantastically twisted the system can become when those rules are themselves twisted - while still being, technically, followed.

Once the government directly influences private corporations and censors free speech through them, then the government *is* violating the first amendment, but hiding behing a private corporation, it all looks legit. That is this part that is disgusting.

Otherwise I agree with such private platforms to do whatever they want, and if we don't like what they do, we can use other platforms.
But once governments have power over those platforms, then they are able to violate constitutions without much consequence. That's pretty bad. But that's absolutely expected: the opportunity is there, and they just seize it. The only way of preventing them from seizing the opportunity is to impeach them.
I am sorry, what government are you referring to? Many Twitter’s content restrictions were implemented when Trump was the president, and his administration was the US federal government. Are you suggesting that Trump should have been impeached because of some decisions that Twitter’s board of directors and C-level execs made back then?!
 
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Offline RJSV

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1164 on: December 05, 2022, 04:51:13 am »
   Folks:. Argue if you will, (and I genuinely wish a happy Holiday, these winter months).
   I've found, over and over, until my head (almost) literally explodes, THAT THE people quite near to me and my life seem like they will NEVER 'debate' in any realistic way...:
   Name calling, smears and innuendo.  It's like a smug, conceit and I'm not implicating anyone on the eevblog more like street neighbors, and some of (my) relatives.
Almost never, do I come away with any sense of accomplishment.
   One fella, local, wouldn't react at all well, to my candid remarks (ignorant viewer of Thom Hartmann, is a good example.  In my opinion, the worst, gossipy, rumour pusher, seemingly just overjoyed to 'slander', and employ false trademarks like they were the only method of 'fair' discourse.
   There's ways, for me, of evaluating media things...but these days a dreaded sense, a caution...DONT CRITICISE these folks.
   I've even started using their catch-phrase, of verbal 'smears' of character: ...'You People...'.
Level-headed rationality is nowhere to be found, trying to 'debate', just gets the comeback:
   "Well, ...Mr. Smith is even worse...".  Never to debate, in real, legitimate terms.

   That's soooo 7th grade.
 

Offline RJSV

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1165 on: December 05, 2022, 05:03:37 am »
Mr. TRUMP, by the way, was part of the reason that this whole movement to 'patrol' the truth started.  Harmful 'fake' this and that,...now MUST be countered...with heavy censorship.
   
   Hell, I ain't even a Trump, (or HANNITY, lol) fan...just alarmed at the ease that that, supposed, SMEAR got put on me. (Asked too many questions).
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 05:32:25 am by RJHayward »
 

Offline RJSV

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1166 on: December 05, 2022, 07:02:35 am »
At any rate, the gist of this, from what I've been hearing, on some of the more conservative channels, that folks are declaring how 'ridiculous' some claims are, (thus dangerous and requiring 'censorship'), but nowhere in the protestations are the actual claims actually addressed.  They are not.  It's a dismissal, while stating "no need to explore THOSE 'crazed' conspiracy (nuts)."
   But why, remind us readers, that (twitter) censorship or suppression happened or increased significantly under TRUMP ? 
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1167 on: December 05, 2022, 07:25:38 am »
The issue is that the DNC and biden staff sent communications to twitter staff instructing them to censor speech, hence the claim is infringing on the 1st amendment by proxy.

Ok, but the DNC does not have authority to demand that, they can only send a request, which the staff of Twitter can choose to abide by if they wish. Shady perhaps, but not a violation of the 1st Amendment, unless you can prove that somebody acting on behalf of the government was forcing Twitter to censor something.
 
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Offline RJSV

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1168 on: December 05, 2022, 07:35:22 am »
Yes, OK, but now we are getting back to that thing where a person cannot speak one word, without a chorus of "PROVE IT !".
 
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Offline RJSV

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1169 on: December 05, 2022, 07:39:16 am »
...plus a chorus of 'eye rolling'...to the degree that people must be getting 'eye cramps'.
Meaning the claim is made that such and such is SO ridiculous as to merit immediate dismissal, (with attendant eye rolls and saying '0hhh here we go...another conspiracy theory...' to be dismissed, of course.
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1170 on: December 05, 2022, 09:31:06 am »
Twitter was violationg first amendment on behalf of democrats (government is not allowed to impede with free speech). Twitter employees were not even sure what rule to apply to block that information. Nothing to see there... Democrads good, Musk bad :palm:. Not to say your argument is just nonsencical, he gets attention to himself, not diverts it.

The First Amendment does not apply to Twitter which is a corporation, not a branch of the government. The amendment protects an individual against prosecution for speech, it does not prevent a company from controlling what you say on their platform. For example Dave can ban any topic he wants here and the Constitution would do nothing to prevent that, even if he was based in the USA.

I am generally a proponent of free speech, but the first amendment applies to specific circumstances, and Twitter is not one of those.
While the first amendment is still mostly uphold in the US, the issue is really that corporations have become stronger than the US government. If the woke propaganda decides to shut you down, then you are done. You loose your job, and become a pariah. And they can do this just after accusations, no due process, or after a single tweet or other social media post that they don't like. And not just for the individuals, they do this to companies. Look up ESG score. The score is worse, if you don't follow the ideology. And it is applied to you, and your subcontractors and customers, so in B2B, to other companies that do business with you. You don't like The Twitter Corporation? Downgrade their ESG. Next time they apply for a loan or want to rent servers or whatever, they are going to be turned down. Or they will loose their income because companies are not going to advertise on the platform. Or de-list their app from the app store. Sounds familiar?
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TWTR/sustainability/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMSudgQvn0oF6wLiy1s2jTEn3rWB068r7_DP9g2pSduFZjsq4JlnSlQmIQSlB7_IWi_LiWkpWGmTNxBhj_YUB6fStPVI3SdHikeJRMoSvJgH-s3TAYVy8E0MsXM7-Mvuwnfdgl5pDhMqU7xrzqfFeME1KL55jtR1RF_2iMNASWkX Updated before the acquisition, I'm sure now it would get a much lower score. High is good, low is bad.
ESG is applied by companies like Blackrock, who own everything.
It doesn't really matter what the US government places into the law anymore, while systems like these are let to exist.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 09:37:05 am by tszaboo »
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1171 on: December 05, 2022, 09:43:08 am »
Twitter was violationg first amendment on behalf of democrats (government is not allowed to impede with free speech).
You are confusing public company with the government. To the same extent you can claim that Fox News “violated” the 1st on behave of Republican administration when Trump was POTUS, and CNN “violates” it on behalf of Democratic admins.
It's you who are confusing something. It would be so be if they did it themselves. But they were doing so while being instructed by members of democratic party.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 09:52:40 am by wraper »
 

Offline Ranayna

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1172 on: December 05, 2022, 09:45:06 am »
Musk Just opened up the -HunterBiden-twitter-dirty laundry  files
He's so desperate to divert attention away from his dire leadership, he'll try anything.
Twitter was violationg first amendment on behalf of democrats (government is not allowed to impede with free speech). Twitter employees were not even sure what rule to apply to block that information. Nothing to see there... Democrads good, Musk bad :palm:. Not to say your argument is just nonsencical, he gets attention to himself, not diverts it.
Have you looked at some of the posts that were deleted? It's possible to do that with the wayback machine. I did, and am not surprised that they were deleted.

 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1173 on: December 05, 2022, 09:57:40 am »
Twitter was violationg first amendment on behalf of democrats (government is not allowed to impede with free speech).
You are confusing public company with the government. To the same extent you can claim that Fox News “violated” the 1st on behave of Republican administration when Trump was POTUS, and CNN “violates” it on behalf of Democratic admins.
Government pressure has been applied to Twitter to suppress information, so the "It's a private company." argument doesn't hold.

Musk Just opened up the -HunterBiden-twitter-dirty laundry  files
He's so desperate to divert attention away from his dire leadership, he'll try anything.
Twitter was violationg first amendment on behalf of democrats (government is not allowed to impede with free speech). Twitter employees were not even sure what rule to apply to block that information. Nothing to see there... Democrads good, Musk bad :palm:. Not to say your argument is just nonsencical, he gets attention to himself, not diverts it.
Have you looked at some of the posts that were deleted? It's possible to do that with the wayback machine. I did, and am not surprised that they were deleted.
There have also been many posts which are just as bad, yet have not been deleted.
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Elon Musk is a nice chap
« Reply #1174 on: December 05, 2022, 02:18:59 pm »
Twitter was violationg first amendment on behalf of democrats (government is not allowed to impede with free speech).
You are confusing public company with the government. To the same extent you can claim that Fox News “violated” the 1st on behave of Republican administration when Trump was POTUS, and CNN “violates” it on behalf of Democratic admins.
It's you who are confusing something. It would be so be if they did it themselves. But they were doing so while being instructed by members of democratic party.

At the time, the Democratic Party were not the govt, so were no different to any other pressure group, & the 1st amendment stuff doesn't apply.
The fact that there was so much internal discussion does not look like anyone "instructed" them.
What Twitter might, quite wisely, have worried about was the possibility of getting sued.
Even in the USA, slander is a thing.
 


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