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Elon Musk's Vegas Loop... Debunking.

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wizard69:
I think the long term goal here is small van like vehicles.  That would increase capacity some.    In any event many people don't understand Vegas from the comments seen here:

* Everything on the strip is an attraction.   Corporations go out of their way to try new things there, that can be a new building facade or a new approach to transportation.   The idea of course is to present a bit of the future and of course do  the all important testing.
* Musk's underground solution is as much an attraction as anything else on the strip.   However if developed in the right way it could actually be a very useful solution for a variety of city needs across the world.
* The Boaring Companies bid was extremely competitive.   Beyond being a competitive bid, Vegas is an ideal place to bring potential customers to demo what is on offer.   In a year or two I would expect purpose built vehicles to increase appeal to areas with real transportation problems.
* Vegas can be extremely hot in the summer, so comments about walking a few blocks can be seen as pretty silly.   Been there and tried to do that
* Being underground means nothing ugly to influence the view tourists see.
* The comments about fires are completely off, especially if one is proposing that gasoline is a better solution.   Beyond all of that most of the reported fires of Tesla's are due to stupid drivers crashing at high speed.
* Attacks on Musk and his accomplishments, do little to diminish the value of this project.  It is as much an experiment in new transportation ideas as it is a fleshed out solution.  Vegas frankly will be out far less money that with other ideas presented if it fails and for that 35 million they get another Vegas attraction.

--- Quote from: wraper on May 31, 2021, 05:54:01 am ---https://twitter.com/SHillforVegas/status/1398497136623247361

--- Quote ---Congratulations
@boringcompany
 -
@LVCVA
 Loop capacity testing exceeded 4400 passengers per hour on Tuesday, confirmed today after reviewing results. #OnlyVegas
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

boffin:

--- Quote ---Congratulations
@boringcompany
 -
@LVCVA
 Loop capacity testing exceeded 4400 passengers per hour on Tuesday, confirmed today after reviewing results. #OnlyVegas
--- End quote ---

Of course what they fail to mention is that number is total passenger journies. 
Elon Measures from East to Central, Central to West, West to Central, Central to East as '4 journeys'.

In reality, that's only 1100 pphpd (passengers per hour per direction), which is what typical metro subways [25k - 50k pphpd] are measured in.

Now if only there were a way to scale up the number of passengers to 25,000 pphpd and make it driverless


Oh wait, we did that back in 1986


boffin:
Also the fanboys that are saying "But it will eventually do 120mph"

Science & Math:

120mph = 53m/s = let's call that 50m/s for simplicity
0 to 50m/s in let's say 10 seconds (which is really fast), or an acceleration of 5m/s² (½G) - very uncomfortable as a passenger, and impossible if you're sitting sideways
Distance traveled during 0 to 50m/s =   ½at²   =   0.5 * 5 * 10 * 10 = 250m

The tunnel is about 650m between stations, so that's

* 10 seconds ½G accel (250m)
* 3 seconds at top speed (150m)
* 10 seconds ½G deceleration (250m)

boffin:

--- Quote from: wizard69 on June 01, 2021, 02:45:14 am ---I think the long term goal here is small van like vehicles.  That would increase capacity some.    In any event many people don't understand Vegas from the comments seen here:

* Everything on the strip is an attraction.   Corporations go out of their way to try new things there, that can be a new building facade or a new approach to transportation.   The idea of course is to present a bit of the future and of course do  the all important testing.
* Musk's underground solution is as much an attraction as anything else on the strip.   However if developed in the right way it could actually be a very useful solution for a variety of city needs across the world.
* The Boaring Companies bid was extremely competitive.   Beyond being a competitive bid, Vegas is an ideal place to bring potential customers to demo what is on offer.   In a year or two I would expect purpose built vehicles to increase appeal to areas with real transportation problems.
* Vegas can be extremely hot in the summer, so comments about walking a few blocks can be seen as pretty silly.   Been there and tried to do that
* Being underground means nothing ugly to influence the view tourists see.
* The comments about fires are completely off, especially if one is proposing that gasoline is a better solution.   Beyond all of that most of the reported fires of Tesla's are due to stupid drivers crashing at high speed.
* Attacks on Musk and his accomplishments, do little to diminish the value of this project.  It is as much an experiment in new transportation ideas as it is a fleshed out solution.  Vegas frankly will be out far less money that with other ideas presented if it fails and for that 35 million they get another Vegas attraction.

--- Quote from: wraper on May 31, 2021, 05:54:01 am ---https://twitter.com/SHillforVegas/status/1398497136623247361

--- Quote ---Congratulations
@boringcompany
 -
@LVCVA
 Loop capacity testing exceeded 4400 passengers per hour on Tuesday, confirmed today after reviewing results. #OnlyVegas
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

1. It's not really on the strip, nor is it open to the public.  It connects the East and [new] West parts of the convention centre.
2. It would do nothing to help traffic, compared to one more lane on LVB or I15
3. It was easy to dig a short tunnel, which opens to the world on each end (which removed most of the safety/fire requirements). Building a tunnel with more than one intermediate stop will suddenly run into much much bigger civil engineering challenges. 
4. The stations aren't air conditioned (E and W are open to the outside, centre is just underground).
5. No part of the convention centre is "pretty".
6. The fire safety aspects of the tunnel are stupid, and I'm sure every tunnel engineer from a country with real metros and real rail tunnels are laughing (a lot).  Elon's solution is "Drivers are trained to back up"
7. It's an underground lane of traffic. Tunnel boring machines aren't new. People driving [even electric] vehicles isn't new.



Oh, and as I've mentioned in another post, that 4400 number is actually 4x the normal pphpd number used to measure regular transit systems.

wraper:

--- Quote from: boffin on June 12, 2021, 03:42:34 am ---Also the fanboys that are saying "But it will eventually do 120mph"

Science & Math:

120mph = 53m/s = let's call that 50m/s for simplicity
0 to 50m/s in let's say 10 seconds (which is really fast), or an acceleration of 5m/s² (½G) - very uncomfortable as a passenger, and impossible if you're sitting sideways
Distance traveled during 0 to 50m/s =   ½at²   =   0.5 * 5 * 10 * 10 = 250m

The tunnel is about 650m between stations, so that's

* 10 seconds ½G accel (250m)
* 3 seconds at top speed (150m)
* 10 seconds ½G deceleration (250m)
--- End quote ---
For sceptics, 120 mph is a figure for longer tunnels  :palm:. At no point of time there was any claim that existing segment will operate at 120 mph. So all you math does is fighting a straw man.

--- Quote ---Oh, and as I've mentioned in another post, that 4400 number is actually 4x the normal pphpd number used to measure regular transit systems.
--- End quote ---
Isn't the number 2 times too high?

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