General > General Technical Chat
Elon Musk's Vegas Loop... Debunking.
sandalcandal:
--- Quote from: boffin on June 12, 2021, 07:35:07 am ---No, the fan boys are still saying 120mph; even Vegas press are touting 155mph still for 'the loop' at the LVCVA.
The LVCVA itself said:
"...The innovative transportation system will allow convention attendees to be whisked across the LVCC’s 200-acre campus in just over one minute -- free of charge -- in all-electric Tesla vehicles capable of holding between 3 and 16 people..."
https://press.lvcva.com/Events/las-vegas-convention-center-makes-history-as-elon-musk-s-the-boring-company-begins-tunneling-the-des/s/a313340f-1f36-4dd7-a53b-76c399215586
"Just over a minute" to: start, accelerate, decelerate, slow to 15, accelerate, decelerate, stop, for 8/10ths of a mile (1.3km); and that's assuming not stopping in the middle. If you watch people's videos of this actually with real traffic from this week, you can already see the central station is a bottleneck, and cars waiting in the tunnel to enter.
--- End quote ---
Who now? Not anyone here. I don't know where you're seeing that so I can only guess you're just using a strawman.
As I posted earlier in the thread, from the same source (different newer article) as your quote:
--- Quote from: sandalcandal on April 26, 2021, 04:26:49 pm ---Erica Johnson "First Look Inside Elon Musk's Underground Transportation System Beneath the Las Vegas Convention Center" LVCVA, 9 April 2021
--- Quote from: LVCVA, 9 April 2021 ---Vehicles have capacity to go 150 mph but will travel at 35-40 mph due to the short distance of the tunnels.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
Edit2: Hell, if you even thought about the numbers you are posting you would see that "just over a minute" works out in line with the publicised speed.
--- Quote from: https://www.boringcompany.com/lvcc ---The LVCC Loop system — a three-station transportation system consisting of 1.7 miles of tunnel — was built in approximately one year (using the now-legacy Godot Tunnel Boring Machine). LVCC Loop's cost was approximately $47M (firm fixed pricing) for the two tunnels and three stations (two surface and one subsurface). Tunneling occurred during large conventions (>100,000 attendees pre-COVID) with zero road closures and zero attendee disturbances.
LVCC Loop connects the LVCC New Exhibit Hall with the existing campus (North/Central/South Halls), and reduces a 45 minute cross-campus walk time to approximately 2 minutes.
--- End quote ---
Edit: Most of your points and calculations have also already been covered in the first page of this thread so please read those first. Also please provide a source for the fact "pphpd is being measured falsely" because it seems you have only convinced yourself using made up numbers.
sandalcandal:
--- Quote from: boffin on June 12, 2021, 07:35:07 am ---The LVCVA itself said:
"...The innovative transportation system will allow convention attendees to be whisked across the LVCC’s 200-acre campus in just over one minute -- free of charge -- in all-electric Tesla vehicles capable of holding between 3 and 16 people..."
https://press.lvcva.com/Events/las-vegas-convention-center-makes-history-as-elon-musk-s-the-boring-company-begins-tunneling-the-des/s/a313340f-1f36-4dd7-a53b-76c399215586
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: boffin on June 12, 2021, 07:56:55 am ---A-C passes through B, it's not a triangle.
Let's show it another way. Station B, in the middle, capacity 5 cars in any direction
car unload/load time = 45 seconds (rough guess)
car every 9 seconds, 400 cars/hour
3 people per car = 1200 persons/hour;
which is oddly close to my 1100 number.
Face it, you don't want to hear it, but in this case Elon has sold them snake oil.
--- End quote ---
Are you really going to contradict your own information so hard to try prove a point?
Also if you read any of the other posts you'd know if The Boring Company does not meet contract requirements then LVCVA is barely paying anything. Particularly if you compare to similar project costs in the locality. Even for a "technology demonstrator" it has good value for money. LVCVA would be fools for not going with TBC.
boffin:
--- Quote from: sandalcandal on June 13, 2021, 01:52:34 pm ---
--- Quote from: boffin on June 12, 2021, 07:35:07 am ---The LVCVA itself said:
"...The innovative transportation system will allow convention attendees to be whisked across the LVCC’s 200-acre campus in just over one minute -- free of charge -- in all-electric Tesla vehicles capable of holding between 3 and 16 people..."
https://press.lvcva.com/Events/las-vegas-convention-center-makes-history-as-elon-musk-s-the-boring-company-begins-tunneling-the-des/s/a313340f-1f36-4dd7-a53b-76c399215586
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: boffin on June 12, 2021, 07:56:55 am ---A-C passes through B, it's not a triangle.
Let's show it another way. Station B, in the middle, capacity 5 cars in any direction
car unload/load time = 45 seconds (rough guess)
car every 9 seconds, 400 cars/hour
3 people per car = 1200 persons/hour;
which is oddly close to my 1100 number.
Face it, you don't want to hear it, but in this case Elon has sold them snake oil.
--- End quote ---
Are you really going to contradict your own information so hard to try prove a point?
Also if you read any of the other posts you'd know if The Boring Company does not meet contract requirements then LVCVA is barely paying anything. Particularly if you compare to similar project costs in the locality. Even for a "technology demonstrator" it has good value for money. LVCVA would be fools for not going with TBC.
--- End quote ---
yep, you're quite right, the 16 people was pure undelivered BS from Elon.
The 3 number I used is what is actually happening.
But if you go back in the press releases we have
- just over a minute
- two minutes
In reality it's a tad over 3 minutes (5:50 for a loop without stopping) https://youtu.be/-RPMt_FS-s8?t=284
As for your last statement, this is where the LVCVA may be wily like a fox. It's entirely possible they knew full well Elon couldnt deliver the pph, and chose this system for exactly that reason, realizing they could get most of what they wanted, for basically nothing. if the Boring company walk away from this (which wouldn't surprise me if they do), LVCVA can just put a moving walkway in there
wraper:
--- Quote from: boffin on June 13, 2021, 11:09:41 pm ---As for your last statement, this is where the LVCVA may be wily like a fox. It's entirely possible they knew full well Elon couldnt deliver the pph, and chose this system for exactly that reason, realizing they could get most of what they wanted, for basically nothing. if the Boring company walk away from this (which wouldn't surprise me if they do), LVCVA can just put a moving walkway in there
--- End quote ---
LMAO, it was already tested and exceeded the capacity required in the contract, so your statement is lame. Neither pphpd was in the contract, neither it's directly comparable with the tested figure.
sandalcandal:
--- Quote from: boffin on June 13, 2021, 11:09:41 pm ---yep, you're quite right, the 16 people was pure undelivered BS from Elon.
The 3 number I used is what is actually happening.
--- End quote ---
Undelivered yet. If there's anything you can be reasonably sceptical of it's if or how the 16 person capacity can be delivered. If you compare to other suggestions and you just look at the available possibilities, even if it's not a Tesla minibus, any electric minibus solution could be easily implemented for this that can carry at least 16 people comfortably, particularly considering limited requirements of driving on a small track at limited speed not on a public roads. If you even use an in-between number instead of the absolute minimum, the "advertised" value is easily achieved. Again, just reiterating what I've previously said since you don't seem to be bothered reading what was previously written.
--- Quote from: boffin on June 13, 2021, 11:09:41 pm ---In reality it's a tad over 3 minutes (5:50 for a loop without stopping) https://youtu.be/-RPMt_FS-s8?t=284
--- End quote ---
But also including looping around and stopping in the middle. If you actually just look at the time to travel from one end to the other
1:45-4:15 that's 2 and a half minutes. Also if you look at this the actual original video instead of that bullshit artist's time warped video you'll see just how slow and leisurely it goes to manage that pace.
In so far as it being some sort of a misleading scam the difference of 1 single minute considering the likely variability of other factors in the wholistic system (e.g. boarding and unboarding) it's hardly a significant error even if it's "25%" If this were a 20 minute journey that much % error would be significant...but it's not. It's a 2 minute journey with +/-30 second error.
--- Quote from: boffin on June 13, 2021, 11:09:41 pm ---As for your last statement, this is where the LVCVA may be wily like a fox. It's entirely possible they knew full well Elon couldnt deliver the pph, and chose this system for exactly that reason, realizing they could get most of what they wanted, for basically nothing. if the Boring company walk away from this (which wouldn't surprise me if they do), LVCVA can just put a moving walkway in there
--- End quote ---
Again if you want to think about how much of a "scam" it is then you need to consider it in relation to the other proposals that were being tabled for LVCVA's need. The alternative was an above ground system being quoted for x4.5 the cost! The original planned project was $215M for which Tesla has provided a "superior" alternative for only $47M. Seriously, where is the scam :-// If you're angry about public infrastructure projects being over priced then I'm with you but this is definitely not one of them.
I've said it many times before. I can't see the logic people are applying to come to the conclusion these "Elon Projects" are a scam. It seems more like people seeing a project with Elon Musk some how connected first then trying to find reasons it is a scam after and using dodgy shit videos from people like "Common Seppo" to try justify their opinions; even going so far as to use a "debunking" of some random, unofficial, fan video as a point against the technology.
I'm not saying Elon Musk or the projects run by his companies are perfect and flawless, there are loads of fanatic irrational fanboys (outside this forum) but there's just so much intellectual dishonesty trying to discredit these projects in discussions on this forum I can't ignore it.
You still haven't provided "factual" evidence of how system capacity is being measured.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version