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Engineering code of conduct

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AlfBaz:

--- Quote from: NANDBlog on June 02, 2020, 09:26:24 pm ---... a tank filled with 1000L gasoline on fire.

What would you do? Have you been in a situation like this?

--- End quote ---
Ask for training and standards. Find out what, if any, certification is needed
The area the device is installed needs to be classified. There are varying levels of hazardous zones and this seems like one. There a lot of standards that are mandatory in this field

floobydust:
Anybody can be an "engineering manager". I've had many managers push me around to design or deploy unsafe equipment. It's a big problem in the profession.

An engineer is supposed to decline any unsafe or outside our expertise work. We have the power to say "NO". A wimp engineer, the "yes man" unfortunately exists to please the boss - steer way clear of them and their projects because one safety transgression leads to another and another and soon it's a minefield.

With HazLoc products and installations, you don't want to be liable for a plant exploding or catching fire, as an engineer or a company. I just refuse to sign off on dangerous stuff and tough cookie to my employer, fuck'em if they won't follow safety standards. Engineers do have a voice, or I'll walk out if they try corrupt my work.

Once an employer had a new grad, fresh engineer-in-training solely do a bunch of HazLoc and electrical work. The Client noticed the drawings were not stamped or formally approved >:(   Boss ran to me demanding I sign off on them. I looked and the designs were unsafe and no way to go backwards as it was already built! So I said "NOPE" and caused a shitstorm. It's not just a formality, getting something signed off. Also, it's to be done before anything is built.
Client really pissed off, as their plant insurance policy is invalid if unknown junk is installed. Client complained, Engineering Association found out, reprimanded and gave a presentation to all the execs explaining how engineering responsibility works. I never heard how they fixed up that mess.
A company's Permit to Practice lists the responsible member who is supposed to sign off on all engineering activities in a company.

P.S. Worked with an ATEX approved product where the Ph.D engineer ran a power cable inside a 4,000L gasoline tank  :palm:

Gregg:
More details on what is required for this box would be very helpful.

I once had a change order for a large 480 volt 3 phase project dumped on me to provide lead/lag for a number of pumps and fans.  After a couple of hours on the internet I found a company that specialized in such items and called them on the phone and explained that I wanted to talk to one of their engineers before I talked to sales.  After a little explanation, I was able to talk to the right person and emailed a block diagram of what was needed.  Meanwhile I put together spreadsheet with a BOM and estimated labor to do it in house.  The next day I received a quote for the complete panel with a projected lead time and it was about 60% of the estimate I had made.  I took the results to my boss and explained that it would be cheaper and faster to just buy what we needed.

Moral of the story is not to butt heads with management, but gently lead them to the right decision.  I have had more than one manager tell me that they didn’t have to know what their people did; they only had to know how to manage. 

bdunham7:

--- Quote from: engrguy42 on June 02, 2020, 10:47:37 pm ---Maybe if it's for a specific installation at some industrial customer you can visit there and see how it's done in other, similar electrical boxes. Or grab some existing drawings for the installation and just duplicate what they already have.

--- End quote ---

That would not be engineering.  That would be gross negligence.

The two legal questions I would ask are:

1) Is the work within the scope of the engineers professional license, if licensure is required?

2) If the engineer currently lacks the expertise, can he/she acquire it? IOW, can they learn what is needed to do the job correctly.

Experience is overrated.  Education and training are more important.  Experience will not help you avoid the mistakes that you haven't made yet.  It may make one more comfortable with a job, but that can be a false sense of security.  Copying another installation gives no assurance that you have any idea of what you are actually doing.

Someone:

--- Quote from: Psi on June 02, 2020, 11:11:18 pm ---If the EE does the job he should force his boss to sign a document saying the boss has been told that the EE is very concerned that he lacks sufficient experience to perform this job to the level he feels is required.

Either the boss signs the document or the job doesn't get done.
And if he signs the document you/he has some control over the situation should anything happen in the future.

Of course it DOES depend on the situation.
The EE should NEVER build anything he fells is unsafe, regardless of any signed document. If you build something unsafe it's mostly on you, regardless of the document.
But sometimes it's less about safety and more about not wanting to get fired in the future if something about your work turns out to be wrong.  If you have the signed document you can prove it was wrong because your boss made you do something without enough experience and that you voiced your concerns before doing it.

You can also record a phone convo with him. However laws about that differ between countries.

--- End quote ---
REAL WORLD: boss refuses to sign or put anything in writing, and says if you don't complete the task you'll be fired.

Been there done that, walked off the job and left them to it. Wrote a letter explaining the reasons and sent a copy to their legal department pointing out the specific legislation that I refused to break and that I knew they had a management chain who intended to ignore it. Better than possibly going to jail for negligence if anything went wrong.

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