General > General Technical Chat
Engineering code of conduct
tggzzz:
--- Quote from: Someone on June 03, 2020, 02:38:42 am ---REAL WORLD: boss refuses to sign or put anything in writing, and says if you don't complete the task you'll be fired.
--- End quote ---
There are ways to help guard against that.
In the UK civil service the "traditional" way is that if you are being instructed to do something you think is wrong you write a formal letter/email to the manager stating what you believe they are asking you to do, your objections, and "ask for written guidance".
Then if push comes to shove you have something to show HR and employment tribunals. If you are dismissed "unfairly" or in this case "constructively" then you can be awarded triple damages; I know someone that received that and walked into another better job :)
--- Quote ---Been there done that, walked off the job and left them to it. Wrote a letter explaining the reasons and sent a copy to their legal department pointing out the specific legislation that I refused to break and that I knew they had a management chain who intended to ignore it. Better than possibly going to jail for negligence if anything went wrong.
--- End quote ---
Yes; I've never had to do that.
BTW, the OP is right not to provide details of the particular situation. The mud-ball details are irrelevant when considering general principles visible from 30000ft :)
tggzzz:
--- Quote from: Berni on June 03, 2020, 05:36:59 am ---Often management would also want a one on one meeting to discuss such pressing issues, in that case you have nobody to back you up, so id recommend recording such meetings on your phone.
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In such situations try to have a "supporter" in the room. They are there to make sure neither side's points are missed or misunderstood.
tszaboo:
Thats a lot of reply. I will give some background.
The company I work for typically deals with ATEX/IECEX equipment. We design intrinsically safe electronics devices, that go into areas where explosive atmospheres are likely. When we design stuff here, we follow the law, we follow the IEC rules, we follow the national standards, and everything is checked and double checked by a notified body. Otherwise I would've left a long time ago. I personally oversee a lot of these projects, and designed electronics here.
There are a few projects, that dont require this. So this project doesn't go into an ATEX zone. But it is an electrical box that is bolted on an IBC tank, controlling 230V/380V heating equipment on that tank. Few KW goes here. The tanks can carry anything from milk, to paints, fuels, chemicals. Anything liquid that would need heating. We made a GPS tracker, and we connect a 3rd party heating controller to the cloud. It needs new wiring, 230V and low voltage. Setting the tank on fire is very very unlikely, but even so, I wouldnt take any chances. Even simple things, like missing ferrules, or having insufficient isolation thickness on a cable.
We are not going to do these installations/modifications. So there is the problem, that we dont even have the expertise to make electrical drawings. The engineers here, we make PCBs, not electrical boxes. We dont even know, which standard to bring up. And management's mentality is: If the client havent asked for a standard, it is not required.
--- Quote from: Bud on June 02, 2020, 10:41:30 pm ---Who will be performing installations of this box on the customer side? I bet it typically be a qualified electrician who may flag the design/drawings as not compliant to the Electric Code of the country of installation. This situation is just begging for troubles for your company and may expose to liabilities.
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Yes, it would probably just stop there, and bounce back as a problem.
--- Quote from: m98 on June 02, 2020, 10:31:36 pm ---Are you even legally allowed to design such systems? Academic qualifications alone don't make you eligible to certify, design or even work on all kinds of electrical stuff. So maybe design the wiring diagram to your best knowledge to make your boss happy, and then tell him that someone with the appropriate qualifications needs to take it from there.
--- End quote ---
Probably not. But then again, if someone would ask you, which standard you need to apply when designing a suspension bridge, what would you say?
--- Quote from: floobydust on June 03, 2020, 12:10:19 am ---P.S. Worked with an ATEX approved product where the Ph.D engineer ran a power cable inside a 4,000L gasoline tank :palm:
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My first reaction is also that. But inside the tank is Zone 0, so if the current/voltage/power on that cable is below the IIC limits, and the cable can handle that environment continuously forever, and the connections have triple safety, that could be a valid design. In any case, if it is possible to avoid, I would do anything to avoid that.
--- Quote from: floobydust on June 03, 2020, 12:10:19 am ---Anybody can be an "engineering manager".
--- End quote ---
Dont even get me started on that.
tszaboo:
--- Quote from: NANDBlog on June 03, 2020, 08:29:47 am --- And management's mentality is: If the client havent asked for a standard, it is not required.
--- End quote ---
Actually, I just had an idea. We need CE on the product, that means, that it needs to confirm with the LVD.
"About the low voltage directive (LVD)
The LVD covers health and safety risks on electrical equipment operating with an input or output voltage of between
50 and 1000 V for alternating current
75 and 1500 V for direct current"
We just need to have someone state that this is a requirement, and start from there. It will be revealed, that we don't have the expertise for that.
m98:
--- Quote from: NANDBlog on June 03, 2020, 08:29:47 am ---Probably not. But then again, if someone would ask you, which standard you need to apply when designing a suspension bridge, what would you say?
--- End quote ---
The task you described sounds like something every industrial electrician could do in less than a day, maybe convince your Boss to hire one for the job?
I wouldn't have a clue where to even start designing a suspension bridge, but if I had to design an electrical installation, I'd know where to find the applying standards: https://www.vde-verlag.de/standards.html
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