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Engineering code of conduct
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tszaboo:

--- Quote from: m98 on June 03, 2020, 09:11:24 am ---
--- Quote from: NANDBlog on June 03, 2020, 08:29:47 am ---Probably not. But then again, if someone would ask you, which standard you need to apply when designing a suspension bridge, what would you say?

--- End quote ---
The task you described sounds like something every industrial electrician could do in less than a day, maybe convince your Boss to hire one for the job?
I wouldn't have a clue where to even start designing a suspension bridge, but if I had to design an electrical installation, I'd know where to find the applying standards: https://www.vde-verlag.de/standards.html

--- End quote ---
That's what I'm trying to achieve.
VDE is also good idea. The customer is German, they would ask for it. So LVD and VDE.

Not to mention, being a German standard, we have a good excuse of not knowing it.
Jeroen3:
You're getting into an expensive project if you need to sell it to Germans.   :popcorn:

There are no laws restricting who may or may not engineer things in europe iirc. Everything is "industry regulated".
There is also no law for electricians. Law just says the owner of the building/company must ensure compliance to relevant industry standard.
Germans enforce standards a lot more strictly than the Dutch.
(if specific standard was named it must be freely available, undermining standards bureau revenue)
But we have some mandated things. eg: working with refrigerant (STEK), transporting hazardous materials (ADR) or working on oil/gas infrastructure (government owned).
The rest is up to the morals of the company or the rules enforced by the insurance company or customer.

However, during litigation the engineer may still end up in prison. Eg: Volkswagen diesel scandal..
So you're not safe. But, if manager asks interns of juniors to design safety things, yeah, that's on him.
See the Stint accident. (i suspect everyone here can do a better job)

tl;dr: Ask who is doing the liability insurance.
madires:
Your German customer has to make sure that the machine adheres to accepted standards anyway. Otherwise the insurance wouldn't pay if something unplanned happens.
olkipukki:
Just my 2 cents


--- Quote from: NANDBlog on June 02, 2020, 09:26:24 pm ---The EE told his manager that he doesn't have the expertise to do it, the manager said that bullshit, they are just electrons and do the task.

--- End quote ---

Whatever (s)he said mean nothing, might be forgot already and you cannot reference to this after some time, such as "he said that, I did that"


--- Quote from: NANDBlog on June 02, 2020, 09:26:24 pm ---We dont have the expertise at the firm to design this,

--- End quote ---

EE should write an email to express his(-er) concerns and doubts.
Don't use first-person forms, overall context should be watered down and diluted a bit  - just open for different interpretations and enough pass a ball to manager's side.
The wording is very important on this stage.


Also, EE should CC more than once person and asked their opinions, but don't escalate

Of course, extremes happened very rare, a manager can invite EE "wtf're doing....? you're fired!"   >:D


--- Quote from: NANDBlog on June 02, 2020, 09:26:24 pm ---we should hire a consultant to do it.

--- End quote ---

Keep your mouth shut until a manager ask what options are.
In most companies, to hire a person (perm/temp) a long and painful procurement process, don't forget your manager need to explain to level up why (s)he need additional budget, people and time,
and also arrange with HR etc.

In short, it's not your problem, let manager to do their job



--- Quote from: NANDBlog on June 02, 2020, 09:26:24 pm ---...engineering code...
What I see here, it is breaking the first two rules.

--- End quote ---
You do not want to remind 'Hippocratic Oath' to your manager


--- Quote from: NANDBlog on June 02, 2020, 09:26:24 pm ---And I will step in, stop whats happening and right this situation.

--- End quote ---
You need to be dragged into this by EE or ideally by your manager, not voluntary to 'step in'


--- Quote from: NANDBlog on June 02, 2020, 09:26:24 pm ---But then again, this could get me or the guy fired if I dont communicate it well, or just seriously harm work relations.

--- End quote ---
I am not expert in NL employment laws, but to fire somebody who refused to do a work not been hired, very unlike in the most EU countries.
In worst cases, your manager will be upset and put 'a mark' on you.
Jeroen3:
Refusing to do a job you're not qualified for is not a valid reason to be fired. Your lawyer will have a field day. And any lawsuit will become public knowledge. Not the best path as employer to pick.
Unless you have been hired to do that job specifically, then you can be fired obviously.

In all other cases you have to be bullied out.
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