General > General Technical Chat

Engineering Immigration Isn't Working?

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vk6zgo:

--- Quote from: magic on September 07, 2022, 06:55:35 pm ---How are those "migrants" even living in Australia if they are unemployed?
Are you guys paying for that much deadweight? :-//

Or are we talking undeportable "humanitarian migrants" who self-identify as engineers ::)

--- End quote ---

Probably working as Baristas!
We are looking to a "coffee fed recovery!" ;D

CatalinaWOW:

--- Quote from: Rick Law on September 07, 2022, 06:37:06 pm ---

USA had the same rule for "skilled labor" (such as IT professionals, programmers, nurses and doctors...) work visas -- employers were suppose to advertise the job for a number of months and demonstrate to the immigration authority that no (legal US citizens or legal US work visa/status) qualified candidate applied.  Only when that is proven can the H1B work visa application move forward.  Now H1B's are handed out like candies, and I see more and more friends/colleagues laid off...

--- End quote ---

I haven't paid attention for a while, but the classic ad, posted widely so that the immigration people could see they tried was something like:  "Wanted BS or MS degree with 3-5 years experience in (enter highly detailed work experience - something like design of aviation band RF front ends for comm gear in commercial airlines) with a modest to low ball salary range." 

Written to specifically get a soon to graduate grad student who could use his TA/research work for the experience.  Only a few people in the world would meet the qualification and only the starving grad student would be interested in the salary.

That seems to have reduced here as the jobs are exported rather than importing the engineers.

Rick Law:
First, I agree with you CatalinaWOW:

Prior to retirement, I used to look at job ads regularly to keep informed about what skills may be I should bone up on just in case.  Yeah, the "immigration job ads" are easy to spot.  There is always some odd requirements that begs the question: "Why on earth do they need that for that job."

Now as to general view:

I actually am supportive of highly educated people staying where they want.  If their educated skills are desirable and above average at their desired residence, they are bring that place up.  When they became experienced and ambitious, some return to their home country and built their career and their home country up.  Way back around the time when home broad-band internet was just becoming popular, I recalled reading about how returning Koreans helped drove Korea's transition into a high tech power house.  Korea can't be alone in experiencing that.  But, and this is a big BUT, what would be the gauge? College degree used to be a good indicator of education, now it is merely a credential instead of proof of a real education.

If tech hires continue to be price-driven and movements are all price based, new arrivals are but clogging up the field, taking away the first few steps of the ladder from the locals.  Once that occurs, better but not top local candidates can't get in.  Now we are left with a two tier system.  The top and then the bottom feeders with very little in between.  Salaries (plus perks) will be > 100% difference.  My kid graduated from college not so long ago.  That is what my kid found (at least here in the USA).

Even lost of un-skilled and/or non-tech has a big negative impact.  Painting houses, doing people's lawns, working in a factory or a warehouse counting inventory...  Those used to be summer or part-time jobs for college kids.  Now college kids use their student loans for travel and "experience the world", missing the opportunity and experience to lean the discipline in making a living and the true meaning of being a productive citizen.  More and more bottom feeders are being created every day.

Could a hi-tech society even exist with just a few percent of real creative minds, then the rest are all just hands -- merely finishing up grunt jobs.  I am not optimistic but I wish I am wrong in this case.

EDIT:  Typo correction only.

rstofer:
As everybody knows, the US has the H1B Visa program for skilled workers and models of distinguished merit and ability.  That's how Melania Trump got here!

First sentence in Overview here:

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b

In theory, a company has to get approval and then sponsor the immigrant.  In theory, when the immigrant loses that job, they are supposed to self-deport or get some other company to sponsor them.  In theory, no US citizen is available for the posting and the applicant fills a vital need and, in theory, they are paid the same as locals.  In practice, I suspect it is a good deal different.  Silicon Gulch is filled with H1B immigrants and there is a lot of friction when jobs get scarce.

I have always thought that the US should import every applicant with an MS or PhD - raid the brain trust, we can find something for them to do.  Make it easy for smart people to come here and prosper.

ETA:  Maybe limit it to STEM, we need more of those candidates!

When I lived and worked in Singapore, I had a 'green card' stapled to my passport.  Oddly, it seemed to expedite my passage through Customs into Singapore.  In any event, it was never a big deal to anybody.  Everybody knew I was leaving when the job was complete.  What a great place to live and work!

fourfathom:

--- Quote from: rstofer on September 10, 2022, 12:10:24 am ---[... H1B Visa program ...]

In theory, a company has to get approval and then sponsor the immigrant.  In theory, when the immigrant loses that job, they are supposed to self-deport or get some other company to sponsor them.  In theory, no US citizen is available for the posting and the applicant fills a vital need and, in theory, they are paid the same as locals.  In practice, I suspect it is a good deal different.  Silicon Gulch is filled with H1B immigrants and there is a lot of friction when jobs get scarce.

--- End quote ---

You are probably correct about this, but when I was working in the 1990's at small, growing companies we hired a good number of H1B engineers, and it wasn't because they would work for cheap.  In our case these were highly-capable people, with skills and experience superior to the few "locals" who we could find.  Often the foreign engineers were former associates of our own engineers, so we knew what they could do.  The interview process was run my the engineering department (with HR participation), and the interviews were technical and deep. This was during times of industry growth, where qualified engineers were hard to find.  The dynamics may be different during down times or in larger companies.

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