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Engineering Immigration Isn't Working?

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mag_therm:

--- Quote from: fourfathom on September 10, 2022, 08:36:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: Rick Law on September 10, 2022, 06:40:08 pm ---When those strategic core competence are carried by those with no long-term attachment (emotional investment) to the company, the company no longer has a future. [and more good stuff]
--- End quote ---

I agree with everything you have written.

Many of the H1 and Green Card holders we employed ended up becoming full-time residents, with families.  Some later started their own companies, and hired locals as well as other non-locals.  If we provide a good environment for success then good people tend to stick around.  I hope we don't destroy that good environment.

--- End quote ---
Yes,I did that,took the opportunity to get out of Australia, came to USA on L1B visa (specialist intra-company).

Later started the business, became citizen.
In my experience, conditions were much more favorable in USA compared to Australia for engineers and business owners.
 
Don't know if that will always be the case, however I think engineering was in decline in Australia particularly since the automotive industry failed back in 1990s.
Post WW2 Australia had electronics, agri-machinery, automotive manufacturing industries, steel and paper etc, but they mostly declined except for mining.

fourfathom:

--- Quote from: Rick Law on September 10, 2022, 07:11:44 pm ---[...] good grads, and reasonably bright grads (judging from their questions), but can't get on the first step of the ladder.
--- End quote ---

This is a sad observation, and no doubt true.  We, as engineers, should ask ourselves why this is the case.  Has engineering become essentially unskilled labor, where we are replaceable cogs in the machine and "cost to employ" is the main factor by which we are judged? This has not been my experience, but perhaps things have changed in the last 20 years.  And/or perhaps some companies or industries are more sensitive to employee costs than they are to employee productivity.  I'm sure that all these factors vary by industry sector. 

But if this is the direction we are heading, what can we do about it?  This is not a rhetorical question -- how can a someone who wants to be an engineer attain a satisfying career?  How can a current engineer avoid being left behind on the scrap heap?

FWIW I have seen what looks like racism or culturism, or something similar, but in those cases it was in Si Valley companies run by Indian-heritage people.  But we all have a group of associates and friends, and we naturally draw from that pool first. No doubt the "good old white boy" network works the same way -- in my last company I hired many good "local" people who I knew and had worked with and trusted, and many of them looked like me.  But my boss was Indian descent, and our main ASIC designer was a Vietnamese refugee via Australia and Canada, who we had previously hired on the recommendation of another Vietnamese engineer (who later was founder of another local company.)  Hell, we even had a few Frenchmen.

AndyBeez:
Define "qualified"? Australia has a lot of state level qualifications and certifications that even the most experienced migrant engineers must attain. Which is a big surprise for ex-pats who, might have arrived with a sense of entitlement in the land of milk and honey/flies. Because that's what the Insta brochure suggested. It comes down to, you maybe experienced over there mate, but here you're the newbie.

Anyway, there is nothing to stop Australia from exporting it's vacancies to more qualified staff in China. It's what British and American companies have been doing for decades.

coppice:

--- Quote from: fourfathom on September 10, 2022, 09:05:34 pm ---We, as engineers, should ask ourselves why this is the case.  Has engineering become essentially unskilled labor, where we are replaceable cogs in the machine and "cost to employ" is the main factor by which we are judged?

--- End quote ---
There has always been a conflict in industry where good engineers are massively more effective than poor ones, and hard to find, but HR departments put their fingers in their ears and scream when faced with this reality.

fourfathom:

--- Quote from: coppice on September 10, 2022, 10:31:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: fourfathom on September 10, 2022, 09:05:34 pm ---We, as engineers, should ask ourselves why this is the case.  Has engineering become essentially unskilled labor, where we are replaceable cogs in the machine and "cost to employ" is the main factor by which we are judged?

--- End quote ---
There has always been a conflict in industry where good engineers are massively more effective than poor ones, and hard to find, but HR departments put their fingers in their ears and scream when faced with this reality.

--- End quote ---
When a company started to be run by HR was usually when I quit.  I'm probably lucky that Hewlett Packard didn't hire me when I was interviewing for my first tech job.  It was still a great place back then and I would have likely stuck around for a very long time and missed a lot of career growth and learning experiences.  Never get too comfortable, it's not healthy.

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