Engineering Titles

[8086]

Hi

I live in the UK, and I have a HNC in electronics engineering. I'm at university studying for a BEng in the same subject. What I wanted to know is what I can call myself at this point?

I realise I'm not exactly an engineer yet, but then there are plenty of "engineers" out there who don't even do any engineering...maybe I could call myself a technician or something?

So, I am writing my CV, and I can't think what I should be using to describe myself. Anyone have some idea of what I could use?

Thanks

[monpjc]

The guy at ATS who changes my tires calls himself an engineer.....

I see no reason why you can't call yourself and Engineer. You have done all the electronics design training and finished a project so ok you are new, but in my view an engineer.

You could class your self a Jr Engineer which on CV here in UK will make it clear you still a little green but they will see your education path from your CV so know your experience.

Titles like Technician, Deign engineer, Senior or Principle Engineer normally come from the jobs you do. When working at Tyco I was classed as a Lab Engineer, but it was no different a role from a Electronics Design Engineer.

If you can get yourself signed up with IET as a TIET (Technician) as these help show your willingness and you can later push for MIET and iEng or cEng - your Uni should help guide you.

All best with rest of your education! And if you need a good UK job agent let me know!

For anyone out side UK wondering what a HNC is you can see more here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_National_Certificate

[Zero999]

I have an HND in electrical and electronic engineering and have been working in the field for five years, ten counting my apprenticeship. I don't see why I can't call myself an engineer. I'd say I'm more of an engineer than someone fresh out of university with a degree. I have no intention of taking a degree either.

[Bored@Work]

In some countries the title "engineer" (typically the local language variant of the word :-)) is protected by law or other regulations.

In other countries only special combinations of the word "engineer" are protected.

In other countries there are established customs and practice who traditionally calls himself an engineer. E.g. calling yourself one in business can bring you in trouble with trading and competition regulations if you aren't adhering to custom and practice.

Yet in other countries the title isn't protected at all.

So, first thing you have to figure out is what the law says, if it says anything at all. The Internet, with a random bunch of smelly dudes hanging around in a forum is absolutely the wrong place to ask for legal advice. Check with your university, check with engineering organizations, and if you can't help it, check with a lawyer.

[Simon]

Yea, I call myself a quality inspector but some twit put me down as a quality engineer for a new customer (looks good) so now i have split prsonality 

In italy (as here really) lots of people who would be technicians are calling themselves engineers. I care little for names. It's what a person can and can't do that counts

[Zero999]

I care little for names. It's what a person can and can't do that counts

Yes I agree although I wouldn't want someone who calls them-self a doctor but is not a doctor operating on me.

[Simon]

well quite, I prefer to know someones abilities and achievements than their title. Titles can be bought anyhow at least in some countries (I have a cousin in Italy that bought a degree so that he can be called doctor - looks good in the phne directory  )

[bilko]

from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/engineer

Noun   1.   engineer - a person who uses scientific knowledge to solve practical problems

[Simon]

according to who ?

[bilko]

Dictionary definition as above, did you find something wrong with that ?

[Time]

in america its illegal to say you are a professional engineer or put it on your business card if you haven't passed the PE exam and gotten your PE license.  You have to work in the industry for x years under another PE before you can take the exam as well.

[Simon]

Dictionary definition as above, did you find something wrong with that ?

who compiles that dictionary ? and what country is it pertinent to ?

[Mechatrommer]

from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/engineer
Noun   1.   engineer - a person who uses scientific knowledge to solve practical problems

well accepted. and remember. the base word is... engine.
would like to add... the wiki...

Engineer
Diplôme d'Ingénieur

[scrat]

Yea, I call myself a quality inspector but some twit put me down as a quality engineer for a new customer (looks good) so now i have split prsonality 

In italy (as here really) lots of people who would be technicians are calling themselves engineers. I care little for names. It's what a person can and can't do that counts

well quite, I prefer to know someones abilities and achievements than their title. Titles can be bought anyhow at least in some countries (I have a cousin in Italy that bought a degree so that he can be called doctor - looks good in the phne directory  )

Each country has its own regulations/language versions for the word "engineer".
Although there are many people cheating on their titles, here in Italy one can be registered as a professional engineer (and sign as an engineer) after a degree and passing an exam (wiki says that our type A and B "ingegnere" correspond respectively to "Chartered" and "Incorporated" engineer in the UK...). In the common language, an "ingegnere" is one having a master degree (3+2 years).

Experience counts a lot, and it's clear that a title doesn't say if you are a good engineer or not. At university they gave me mainly theoretical instruments, which can be useless without passion and common sense. However, it's clear that there's still a difference between someone having a certain formal training together with experience and who has the same experience but has studied less.
I don't care very much about what the others do about this, but improperly using a title is not so fair towards who has studied hard for achieving it, IMH,and biased,O.

[Simon]

so in Italy can a plumber call himself an engineer ? bearing in mind I was in the south.....

[Mechatrommer]

so in Italy can a plumber call himself an engineer ? bearing in mind I was in the south.....

if he use scientifical knowledge to solve practical problem...

[Simon]

I'm refering to the law not what people think and say

[scrat]

so in Italy can a plumber call himself an engineer ? bearing in mind I was in the south.....

No, that's not legal nor fair, and I doubt it makes any sense. However, I mut say there are some differences between South and North (I think you know it), in the way people looks at technicians and their titles. Even where I live, "ingegnere" (usually referred to civil engineer) was a kind of title of respect, before other meanings.

We're going a bit off topic, but it's interesting to hear how technicians are considered in other countries.

[bilko]

so in Italy can a plumber call himself an engineer ? bearing in mind I was in the south.....

Please define a 'plumber'
Is he somebody who fits your bathroom or could he be somebody who engineers and does the calculations for pipework on oil rigs ?

[Simon]

I mean a plumber who just fits gas and water pipework. When I lived in Italy no end of people were throwing unearned titles around.

[bilko]

Its even worse in Spain, self declared 'experts' with no training, skill or expertise.

[scrat]

Its even worse in Spain, self declared 'experts' with no training, skill or expertise.

Our sweet mediterranean way of thinking 

[Bored@Work]

Its even worse in Spain, self declared 'experts' with no training, skill or expertise.

Our sweet mediterranean way of thinking 

In northern Europe we put these 'experts' on TV. Whenever there is something happening there will be at least one self appointed 'expert' interviewed on TV, who happens to be the world's most renown expert exactly, but really exactly, for the particular incidence. An accident involving three red, one blue and five silver cars? No problem, there is an expert for accidents involving exactly three red, one blue and five silver cars coming forward.

[Simon]

Its even worse in Spain, self declared 'experts' with no training, skill or expertise.

Our sweet mediterranean way of thinking  

It's not what you know but who you know

[Sionyn]

nothing wrong with 'expert' as along as the person knows what they are talking about.
but rarely do these expert meet muster there often journalist who have no clue about any scientific principle
same as most pundits.

[JohnS_AZ]

Confusing topic to be sure.
To be completely clear, I have no formal university engineering degrees.

I started working for a major electronics manufacturer as a technician right out of tech school. After 10 year they gave me a promotion and a business card that said "Manufacturing Engineer". In that position it did indeed design circuitry, machines, and systems. So the job did match the title. I was also a member of IEEE and SME (Society of manufacturing Engineers) for that time.

I always figured the distinction was between ...
Joe Smith, Electronics Engineer
and
Joe Smith, BSEE (or MSEE), Electronics Engineer

[Zero999]

Maybe I should but the letters HND after my name on my CV?

There again, I think it might come across as pretentious.

[Sionyn]

hacker covers it all

[Frangible]

What you call yourself is unimportant.  What really matters is how highly others think of you - they'll provide you with a title soon enough.

[Bored@Work]

What you call yourself is unimportant.

Until a judge tells you you can't, and fines you.

[McPete]

Check with your national engineering body for the local terminology, but what you have sounds like an Australian diploma or advanced diploma. That, in Australian terms could title you as a  technologist(what I'll be called when I'm finished my apprenticeship), engineering officer, or associate engineer, depending on who's handing out the titles. For myself, "electronics bloke" suits me!

[Lawsen]

The U.S. have various titles for engineer.  A company can give you that title, if you proved to them that you are capable of what they need.  An university can give you that title if you taken their classes and graduated with that engineering degree, often taking 4 to 10 years, depending upon ability or situation.  There are two exams for the license.  No all engineers require license.  If you are designing a computer or bicycle, then you do not need a license, a consumer item.  If you are designing as dam, power station, or a public place, then you will need a license, PE, principal engineer.  The first exam is given by the California consumer affairs - engineering society as the EIT.  You will have to work for a principal engineer for a few years to be ready to take the PE, exam.  Most houses are designed by anyone, no civil engineer required, just a city permit to build it.  Commercial buildings are required to have a PE, principal engineer.  All engineering and business carry some liability that is something for one to think about, but not dwell at it, just do a good job that is safe and checked by various people like my recumbent bicycle or in line ski roller skate. 

Lawsen

[Sal Ammoniac]

PE, principal engineer. 

Actually, PE is Professional Engineer.

[Simon]

PE, principal engineer. 

Actually, PE is Professional Engineer.

I thought it was "physical exercise" we could call it "paperwork exercise" just to stay up to date

[Sal Ammoniac]

PE, principal engineer. 

Actually, PE is Professional Engineer.

I thought it was "physical exercise" we could call it "paperwork exercise" just to stay up to date

No. We call that kind of thing here in the U.S. Physical Education.

[Zero999]

I thought PE was Physical Education which can also be studied at degree level.

[Lawsen]

Did you meant a PE, physical education, coach?  In the U.S., PE instructor or teacher is a physical education coach.  You would be expected to run, job, walk briskly, toss balls, swim, dive, float on your back, dance, and other strenuous activities.  The specialized study for P.E. (physical education) is kinesiology. 

Lawsen

[Zero999]

The specialized study for P.E. (physical education) is kinesiology. 

Wow, that almost makes it sound intellectual.

[TheWelly888]

The Internet, with a random bunch of smelly dudes hanging around in a forum is absolutely the wrong place to ask for legal advice. Check with your university, check with engineering organizations, and if you can't help it, check with a lawyer.

Hey! Who are you calling "smelly"?! - I had a bath last Christmas!  

Crudely put, the difference between an engineer and a technician - the engineer designed it, the technician gets it bloody working!