Author Topic: [SOLVED] Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?  (Read 29317 times)

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Offline madsbarnkobTopic starter

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SOLVED ANSWER: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/ericsson-slammed-me-with-a-copyright-strike-on-a-teardown-video-help!/msg2917040/#msg2917040


My channel for Kaizer Power Electronics: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSukTlgTEWiL-sl0UeYeJvQ/

So apparently owning a piece of equipment, taking it apart while filming it and show very little / basic design about it is now breaking intellectual property rights according to Ericsson.

I show PCBs, I follow signal and current paths and labelled different ICs and transistors used. I never revealed any software but only what you can see on the hardware. Simple reverse engineering.

They slammed a copyright strike on a teardown video of a RBS3202 Base station for cell towers, with a extremely vague reason: "This videoclip include detailed information of the product - Ericsson RBS3202 - which belong to an area where our company holds many IPR rights"
I am in doubt would hold up in court, but I got little to no knowledge about that subject and I got no time or money to spend on a possible lawsuit.  :-//

There is only three things I can do:
1) Accept the strike and remove all Ericsson content in fear of getting youtube channel closed forever.
2) Contact Ericsson directly, I got a contact email with the strike, but what should I write them? (Clearly they just wanted the video gone)
3) Counter-file the strike and that can possible lead to a court case, legal action etc. Which is such a serious step that there basically is no choice for a small youtube channel to go against a international company.

I can only come here to hope for help, support or just shred a bit of light over the doom that will soon hit everyone making teardown videos if this is the new normal.

« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 02:57:16 pm by madsbarnkob »
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2020, 07:37:43 pm »
Holding patents in a certain area doesn't mean suppressing any information or discussion about it. It doesn't sound like they're claiming design patents either. If a teardown video isn't fair use I don't know what would be. No reviews or critiques would be possible. This seems malicious abuse of their position but unfortunately YouTube seems eager to facilitate it. If it were me I'd fight it tooth and nail but I admittedly don't have skin in the game.

https://www.youtube.com/about/copyright/fair-use/#yt-copyright-protection
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 07:44:39 pm by Mr. Scram »
 
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Offline Benta

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2020, 07:53:34 pm »
Not nice, but I can see no wrongdoing on your side. Taking things apart and describing/filming them is perfectly OK. Reverse engineering as well.

To your options:
1: is the comfortable one, keeping out of trouble by ducking your head.
2: ask Ericsson precisely which IPR "rights" they're referring to. BTW, no such thing as "IPR" exists, although it is often seen in the Media. It can only be Patents, Copyrights/Trademarks or Trade Secrets. None of these seem to apply here.
3: file a criminal complaint at the Police about coercion (bagvaskelse, evt. trussel) against Ericsson. This is free of cost and assures that your complaint is registered. Don't expect the Police to do anything, but it's on record.

Good Luck with your decision. :)

« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 08:05:47 pm by Benta »
 
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Offline daqq

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2020, 08:01:36 pm »
Disclaimer: I'm no legal expert. And I have 'no skin in the game'.

That's some serious bullshit, likely committed by some overzealous lawyer. Thunderf00t did some videos on fair use, since he has been targeted several times from other youtube channels and other entities, though never by a large corporation of this type. While I'm pretty confident that displaying the guts of a device that I'm guessing you can buy on ebay for a few hundred USD falls well within fair use, the question to what lengths are they willing to go. A good question would be whether they know about the (professional) public backlash that follows this kind of BS.

Also: Paging Mr. Jones!
Believe it or not, pointy haired people do exist!
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Offline ve7xen

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2020, 09:02:21 pm »
IANAL, either.

This is clearly BS. As pointed out, if they are claiming IP, they must be claiming either Trademark, Copyright, or Patent. YouTube's notice specifically mentions copyright, which makes sense, since the DMCA only applies to copyright, and is almost certainly the legal process by which this has been undertaken. The only copyright protected work remotely related here is probably some firmware, and the PCB artwork, neither of which you are distributing - and fair use would clearly apply anyway to showing some images of the PCBs not intended as reproductions of the artwork.

False DMCA takedowns do face some penalties, including your potential legal fees were you to fight this. This case seems totally (again, IANAL) not 'in good faith' as the DMCA requires under penalty of perjury. I'm not sure how far I'd take it, but I would certainly push back and demand they specify what protected work has been infringed.

Does Google also provide an appeals process? Hopefully they employ people knowledgable enough on copyright to know that this is a bullshit claim, if human eyes actually set upon it. I guess this is the 'Request Retraction' option. I'd pursue that too.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 09:04:24 pm by ve7xen »
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Offline madsbarnkobTopic starter

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2020, 09:36:11 pm »
Thank you for your replies.

I got the contact information on a senior group legal counselor at Ericsson, I will contact that person and talk in details about "Patents, Copyrights/Trademarks or Trade Secrets" that they base this on. From a viewpoint that there must be a mistake. I am not going offensive at first, that leads nowhere.

I revealed nothing more in those Ericsson base station teardowns than in f.ex. this from Nokia Siemens


Offline james_s

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2020, 09:56:00 pm »
I'd fight the hell out of this on principal, maybe you can find a lawyer willing to volunteer services, otherwise set up a "fuck Ericsson" gofundme and I bet money will roll in.

We MUST resist this sort of crap, companies get away with it because most people just roll over.
 
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Offline twospoons

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2020, 09:58:18 pm »
I think thats the right approach. If they insist you've breached their IP, ask for a detailed explanation of what they're objecting to, "so you wont accidentally breach their IP in future". Then you will have ammunition to push back , if their rationale is unreasonable.

Frankly, if you are not publishing their software or schematics, or building a copy, I fail to see how you can be infringing their IP since the hardware is clearly easily obtainable by the public and would be of far more use to the competition than your video.
 
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Offline iMo

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2020, 10:16:06 pm »
No doubt Ericsson may claim IPR (a general term for the assignment of property rights through patents, copyrights and trademarks) in relation to their product.
I would kindly ask Ericsson to grant me a permission to show that stuff in my video. It has no sense to piss against wind.
The fact the other Vendors do not claim their IPRs when you do a teardown of their products "without permission" may not necessarily mean they cannot..
Readers discretion is advised..
 

Offline madsbarnkobTopic starter

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2020, 10:27:13 pm »
No doubt Ericsson may claim IPR (a general term for the assignment of property rights through patents, copyrights and trademarks) in relation to their product.
I would kindly ask Ericsson to grant me a permission to show that stuff in my video. It has no sense to piss against wind.
The fact the other Vendors do not claim their IPRs when you do a teardown of their products "without permission" may not necessarily mean they cannot..

Just like the rights-to-repair movement, I fail to see the ask-for-permissions, to do with my own property as I see fit. You could take down any video of any product that shows even the slightest "inside" or beyond the warranty void sticker then.

I did not post the other video to justify it, but as I said, an example of what was shown in the video I can not show you, as its taken down.

Online Bud

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2020, 10:37:32 pm »
Big deal ! Just remove the video and go on with your life. What is so special in it that may worth a fight.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline magic

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2020, 10:45:08 pm »
The whole YouTube thing says "copyright" multiple times, so I suppose they had to declare that your video infringes on their copyright specifically and when pressed for details, they will try to claim some BS about reproducing images of the PCB or whatever.

No harm trying and posting the answer to the Internet for all the armchair lawyers to get outraged about. No idea what they would do if you file a counter notice, find a lawyer familiar with all that American BS ::)

I suppose you could also ask YouTube to consider if this notice is even formally valid without any kind of specific claim of what's wrong with your video, though I'm not sure if DMCA cares about such things.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 10:47:35 pm by magic »
 

Offline nigelwright7557

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2020, 10:49:19 pm »
They must have shares in a screw company !

I am surprised at youtube and the copyright stance as there is loads of copyrighted stuff on youtube.

I can see both sides.
1/ Want to breakdown a system to see how it works.
2/ As a software/hardware designer myself  I wouldnt want my software/hardware explained to anyone else so they could copy it.
 

Offline madsbarnkobTopic starter

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2020, 11:10:42 pm »
Big deal ! Just remove the video and go on with your life. What is so special in it that may worth a fight.

It is removed, as well as other Ericsson videos. I did not want to risk channel closure just for that, there is nothing special about those videos. It is their wild, vague and broad claim that made me ask.

I suppose you could also ask YouTube to consider if this notice is even formally valid without any kind of specific claim of what's wrong with your video, though I'm not sure if DMCA cares about such things.

There is no way to contact youtube, other than filing counter claim, which opens the whole legal, court, lawyers and fee package that they threaten with.

They must have shares in a screw company !

I am surprised at youtube and the copyright stance as there is loads of copyrighted stuff on youtube.

I can see both sides.
1/ Want to breakdown a system to see how it works.
2/ As a software/hardware designer myself  I wouldnt want my software/hardware explained to anyone else so they could copy it.

This was a manual takedown, not a AI/bot discovery, so Ericssons legal department is trawling the web for manuals, videos and everything else about their system and try to force it away. This has been seen many times before if anyone knows the website "franks hospital service" that had manuals for many different medical instruments and machines.

2) It is all discarded legacy 3G equipment, noone in their right mind would copy it and not at all from watching videos of a RF amateur looking at it. These are widely for sale on ebay if someone wanted one to look at. I never revealed any code, despite having partial software/firmware in my hands, as I know that is copyrighted material.

Online langwadt

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2020, 11:14:55 pm »
Holding patents in a certain area doesn't mean suppressing any information or discussion about it.

it pretty much means the exact opposite, a patent is a time limited monopoly in exchange for disclosing 
an idea and everything about how it works
 
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Offline magic

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2020, 11:21:51 pm »
I am surprised at youtube and the copyright stance as there is loads of copyrighted stuff on youtube.
Nothing surprising. The DMCA is rigged against the uploader. I suspect that YT would be legally required to take the complaint in good faith even if Ericsson claimed that they own copyright of Mickey Mouse and that the video infringes on that. What YT generally doesn't care that much is content which hasn't been DMCA'd yet.

This was a manual takedown, not a AI/bot discovery, so Ericssons legal department is trawling the web for manuals, videos and everything else about their system and try to force it away. This has been seen many times before if anyone knows the website "franks hospital service" that had manuals for many different medical instruments and machines.
I believe that copying manuals is technically a copyright infringement, unlike this which sounds like total BS. IANAL.
 

Offline m98

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2020, 11:29:10 pm »
2/ As a software/hardware designer myself  I wouldnt want my software/hardware explained to anyone else so they could copy it.

Why? If your design can be copied by looking at it in a video, there are already only two options. Either it is trivial but copying would have little monetary value for a plethora of reasons, or it is nontrivial and you have a patent on it.
Whether anyone can find a teardown on Youtube is totally irrelevant. If there is money to be made by it, your potential competitors are going to be among your first customers, and they'll be meticulously picking apart your product until they know it better than you do.
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2020, 11:40:31 pm »
This is really a problem of a few semi-monopolistic companies (Youtube, eBay, Amazon and the like) sitting on so much of communications and actual trade/distribution...   that they have ended up with disproportionate power to ban legitimate activity for arbitrary/abusive reasons, and there doesn't seem to be any reasonable recourse for ordinary citizens / small business people.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 11:42:54 pm by SilverSolder »
 
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Online langwadt

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2020, 12:44:32 am »
Big deal ! Just remove the video and go on with your life. What is so special in it that may worth a fight.

It is removed, as well as other Ericsson videos. I did not want to risk channel closure just for that, there is nothing special about those videos. It is their wild, vague and broad claim that made me ask.

I suppose you could also ask YouTube to consider if this notice is even formally valid without any kind of specific claim of what's wrong with your video, though I'm not sure if DMCA cares about such things.

There is no way to contact youtube, other than filing counter claim, which opens the whole legal, court, lawyers and fee package that they threaten with.

isn't it a simple as telling Youtube you don't believe it is violating copyright and why, e.g. fair use and the the claimant has a short period to convince Youtube they are actually serious about it?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2020, 12:49:23 am »
They must have shares in a screw company !

I am surprised at youtube and the copyright stance as there is loads of copyrighted stuff on youtube.

I can see both sides.
1/ Want to breakdown a system to see how it works.
2/ As a software/hardware designer myself  I wouldnt want my software/hardware explained to anyone else so they could copy it.
Just to be clear, there is no copyright infringement here anyway. Copyright, trademarks, and patents are different things, and the only one they are even actually sorta claiming ("detailed product information") would fall under patent protection. But a patent does not create confidentiality (on the contrary, it requires publishing those details, as langwadt said). Copyright, on the other hand, involves producing copies of a published work. There is no published work here to begin with, and even if there were, describing it does not constitute a violation.

IANAL, but: As for your concern about your designs being copied: you have two (and only two!) ways to go about preventing this. One is obfuscation/confidentiality: trying to keep your design secret. This means limiting who can gain access to the information. With some things (like firmware) there are ways to make it hard or essentially impossible to derive the information, even with access to the product. Or potting the electronics in hard compound, or welding a device shut such that opening it is impractical. And you can require customers to sign confidentiality agreements, combined with not selling the product to them, but instead offering only rental, such that you always retain ownership of the product. (Otherwise, the first sale doctrine comes into play, which kills off your rights to a product you sold. For example, you cannot prohibit a customer from opening, reselling, or describing a device you sell them, whereas you can make that a condition under a rental.) But in most situations, it's impossible to actually get your product out there without exposing its innards to the world. And this is why the second way is prevalent: patents. These grant you exclusivity to your design, regardless of who knows its details.
 
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Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2020, 01:00:24 am »
From the picture in the opening post
Quote
What You can do
- Do Nothing. Strikes expire after 90 days, as long as you complete Copyright School
...
I wonder if completing Copyright School will endow you with the knowledge to be able to definitively call this out as BS
Then send ericson's lawyer a link to it :-DD
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2020, 01:03:52 am »
That is a clear cut case of abuse of the Copyright Act.
Dispute it.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2020, 01:10:34 am »
There is only three things I can do:
1) Accept the strike and remove all Ericsson content in fear of getting youtube channel closed forever.

Your channel cannot be shut down for Copyright claims.
There is no mechanism in Youtube to do that, Copyright claims are not community guidelines strikes against your channel.

Quote
2) Contact Ericsson directly, I got a contact email with the strike, but what should I write them? (Clearly they just wanted the video gone)
3) Counter-file the strike and that can possible lead to a court case, legal action etc. Which is such a serious step that there basically is no choice for a small youtube channel to go against a international company.

So another video telling them to F off and watch it go viral and watch them backtrack.
Don't back down, do #3 and nuke them from orbit.
What they have done is abuse of the Copyright Act and that is a crime.
 
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2020, 01:13:16 am »
There are very few hardware configurations which are "novel"--------most are "Public Domain", as witness how similar the circuitry is from competing companies.

Back in the 1920s/'30s, the then, large Radio/Electronics companies tried, & failed, to suppress the propagation of knowledge about this then, new field.

"Radio" magazines published circuits using the latest designs, Amateur Radio operators made breakthroughs in HF Communications, in many cases, leading the major companies, tube manufacturers published details on all their new components (they wanted to sell them, & restriction of knowledge restricted their sales).

In Oz, manufacturers of radios did pay "lip service" to  the patent claims, as witness the "ARTS & P" stickers on older radios, but other countries did not.

From that time,  "Public Domain" reigned supreme, until fairly recently.
People take their "IP rights" to ridiculous lengths, sometimes.
One company I worked for a few years ago wouldn't let us look at the schematic of their "mother board"
(it was really just a interface board), which made troubleshooting a bit difficult.

I pointed out to them that if anyone possesed IP rights to the stuff on that board, it would be National Semiconductor, or Texas Instruments.
They were adamant, however, & didn't change their ruling till they received a batch of faulty boards from their supplier.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 01:15:18 am by vk6zgo »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2020, 01:15:26 am »
Just to be clear, there is no copyright infringement here anyway. Copyright, trademarks, and patents are different things, and the only one they are even actually sorta claiming ("detailed product information") would fall under patent protection.

This is correct, and the Erricson lawyers will know this.
You are being strong armed by a bunch of bullies acting illegally, tell them to F off.
 
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