Author Topic: [SOLVED] Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?  (Read 29297 times)

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Offline Howardlong

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2020, 02:11:17 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/user/ljfrench009

Leonard French is an actual Copyright Attorney, but he's US based, so there is a jurisdiction difference. He does seem to spend a fair bit of time in Europe as his OH resides (or resided) in Scotland: ISTBC but I think she has a legal background also.

I am sure he would have a view, but I don't know whether or not it would pique his interest enough to make a video about it.

A long shot, but doesn't Simone Giertz have an Ericsson connection?
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2020, 02:40:09 pm »
A number of surprising things have been made to be "creative works", like software itself (even if not software APIs) and AFAIK circuit board designs too. Post a high-res pic of a PCB and technically it's a copy of a protected work in a different medium.

No that is not true. Software is specially included in copyright, even if otherwise it would be described as a "useful article" (ie. not a creative work).

Hardware items classed as "useful articles" in general are not covered by copyright, except for some specific exceptions such as the design of yachts, the mask layers of an IC, but PCBs are not protected works under Copyright. They may be covered by a patent, if they embody a patented circuit.

I struggle to see what IPR a teardown video could in theory violate. The only thing I can think would be if it demonstrated how to circumvent a copyright protection mechanism, which might fall under DMCA. Otherwise everything would be covered by fair use. Research may also be an exclusion.

Tbh, I think Ericcson's legal office had an intern on duty that day with insufficient supervision.
Bob
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Offline magic

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2020, 02:57:12 pm »
Hardware items classed as "useful articles" in general are not covered by copyright, except for some specific exceptions such as the design of yachts, the mask layers of an IC, but PCBs are not protected works under Copyright. They may be covered by a patent, if they embody a patented circuit.
Okay, if that's true than my whole argument flies out the window.

Am I reading it right that I can sell exact 1:1 clones of any commercial PCB as long as there are no patents and trademarks involved?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2020, 03:59:01 pm »
Big deal ! Just remove the video and go on with your life. What is so special in it that may worth a fight.
Give me $20 or I'll punch you. It's not worth the fight, just pay.
 
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2020, 04:31:48 pm »
Hardware items classed as "useful articles" in general are not covered by copyright, except for some specific exceptions such as the design of yachts, the mask layers of an IC, but PCBs are not protected works under Copyright. They may be covered by a patent, if they embody a patented circuit.
Okay, if that's true than my whole argument flies out the window.

Am I reading it right that I can sell exact 1:1 clones of any commercial PCB as long as there are no patents and trademarks involved?

You have unlocked new research: China. ;D
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Offline borjam

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2020, 04:34:53 pm »
This happened in Germany. I am Spanish and I am *not* a lawyer. Of course I have no clue about legal differences with Denmark.

And I am writing from memory.

Years ago, the ailing SCO Group tried to extort money from companies using Linux systems claiming patent infringement.

Curiously, SCO did not specify which patents were being violated. So it was a surreal situation in which the defendant would be unable to fight the case.

If I remember well, a German court ordered them to provide a list of the patents they claimed were being violated or withdraw the claims. It seems that malicious litigation is taken very seriously in German law.

Turns out, SCO withdrew in Germany.

(Added) Groklaw, the website that covered this kerfufle thoroughly, still exists.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071113135529406

I have no idea how it is in Denmark, though. But a malicious threat of litigation might be an offense there?

Still speaking as a non lawyer, a patent is a dual edged sword. It provides legal protection against unauthorized use of your invention but it is incompatible with secrecy because, well, patents are published in the first place.
 
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Offline Bud

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2020, 04:55:08 pm »
Big deal ! Just remove the video and go on with your life. What is so special in it that may worth a fight.
Give me $20 or I'll punch you. It's not worth the fight, just pay.
That is a strawman. Look it up in you favourite dictionary if you do not know what strawman argument is.
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Offline james_s

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2020, 05:11:40 pm »
Not really, it's a pretty accurate assessment. Every time someone just rolls over and takes it, companies are encouraged to continue this sort of bullying.

It's like not bothering to call the police when somebody steals something from you, it emboldens other thieves. Fuck anybody who tries to push me around, I'm happy to spend $1000 worth of effort fighting something that would cost me $10 to just accept.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2020, 05:25:10 pm »
That is a strawman. Look it up in you favourite dictionary if you do not know what strawman argument is.
Calling strawman to avoid having to actually refute anything seems to be quite popular nowadays. The comparison is relevant. Someone threatens you unreasonably with undue force and your advice is to back down because it's the easy way way out. It's only $20 and you won't miss it. But it's wrong and does represent a loss, just like removing a teardown does. It also means the bully can come back for more whenever he wants. There's a good chance these lawyers represent more similar companies.
 
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Offline madsbarnkobTopic starter

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2020, 07:11:01 pm »
I got the contact information on a senior group legal counselor at Ericsson, I will contact that person and talk in details about "Patents, Copyrights/Trademarks or Trade Secrets" that they base this on. From a viewpoint that there must be a mistake. I am not going offensive at first, that leads nowhere.

Please let us know how it goes. If you get no reply I'll do a video calling them out on it.
Also, contact several of the Youtube lawyers, they do videos about this stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzGiDDKdphJ0GFvEd82WfYQ
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpa-Zb0ZcQjTCPP1Dx_1M8Q
https://www.youtube.com/user/IanCorzine
https://www.youtube.com/user/ljfrench009

And make sure you have a backup video uploaded somewhere else it can't be touched, like LBRY, so that people can watch it for reference.
Every Youtuber should be auto backing up videos on LBRY and Bitchute at a minimum.

Thank you very much Dave. It means the world to me, the support and love a electronics nerd can get from fellows here on eevblog forum  :-+

Youtube has been contacted with question about the vagueness of their claim
Ericsson lawyer has been contacted via email, asking them kindly to explain this mistake and finding a solution.


Just as a note for someone else that asked about what I showed: Only showed hardware, no schematics, no manuals, only video of it getting taken apart and pictures where I labelled the ICs with their most interesting specs. Thats it.

Offline edy

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #60 on: February 06, 2020, 07:16:29 pm »
So if you put up a video showing Ericsson threatening your video, can they then claim "defamation". Talk about David vs. Goliath here. If that's the case, nobody would ever be able to say or do anything and large corporate giants would shut everyone up by threatening to sue and the small guy would hide away in a corner because they would be made bankrupt just hiring a lawyer to defend themselves. Oh wait, that's how it already works!  :-DD

If your goal here is to share information, and you want to protect your main channel from demonetization, can you not set up a "side channel" to publish these types of videos? Chances are you are 100% in the right and Ericsson should go f&ck themselves. However, since YouTube couldn't care less about the plight of the average person and simply wants to appease advertisers, perhaps you can put it on an unlinked secondary YouTube account.

Sure, you will take the "hit" of not having any revenue coming from it... but who cares. You will have at least have published the video for everyone in the world to see and download, together with another video stating why you had to do this (so everyone knows) and on top of it you could fight them and worst they could do is shut down that secondary channel and not touch your main one. If they shut it down, then you put it up on another site. One way or the other Ericsson wants to silence you. Show them they can't win.
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Offline ebastler

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #61 on: February 06, 2020, 08:08:00 pm »
Big deal ! Just remove the video and go on with your life. What is so special in it that may worth a fight.

It‘s not so much about losing  the video, but about the „copyright strike“ now on file with YouTube, I would assume. You do understand their “3 strikes, you are out“ policy?
 

Offline edy

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #62 on: February 06, 2020, 09:04:54 pm »
Big deal ! Just remove the video and go on with your life. What is so special in it that may worth a fight.

It‘s not so much about losing  the video, but about the „copyright strike“ now on file with YouTube, I would assume. You do understand their “3 strikes, you are out“ policy?

That's the rub isn't it.... you can have some crazy litigious organization flag a bunch of your videos and get you kicked out of YouTube for nothing. If you put your hands up and say "oh well, move on" then they can keep targeting you again and again. You have to FIGHT unfortunately, it is the only way. Even if it means you lose, you don't go down without causing damage and burning down your opponent. Otherwise they will keep doing this to everyone. Perhaps free legal help, EFF and publicizing this you will create the "Streisand Effect".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

By the way, this tends to be happening with dentists who post information about Smile Direct Club and a host of other "home-directed" orthodontics:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/teeth-straightening-lawsuit-manitoba-dentists-1.5265969

Individual dentists who posted anything negative about it, on YouTube or otherwise, got hit with take-down requests aggressively. Even dentists who you would think have the means to pay for these types of legal battles, for the most part just scared away and didn't think it was worth it. They went on with their lives. Finally a bunch of them got together and started suing them back:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2019/09/26/smiledirectclub-ipo-class-action-lawsuit/2445447001/

So now it is a huge mess but some companies need to be wrangled into submission because they do not play fair. If you read the second article above you will note one of the reasons Smile Direct Club is being sued is because:

The lawsuit further states that the company has responded to criticism with "a deliberate, intentional, and well-lawyered campaign to stifle any legitimate, publicly-stated concerns or criticisms of its product and/or business practices."

That's right, this company has threatened EVERYONE aggressively that even thought to mention them and be scientifically objective about them. They wanted to shut down and shut up anyone with some standard Lawyer scary letter threatening to sue you until oblivion.  :box:

This is another nice article that summarizes it from BuzzFeed:

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nidhisubbaraman/smile-direct-club-lawsuits-dentists
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 09:16:21 pm by edy »
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2020, 09:43:18 pm »
IANAL but AIUI there is nothing to lose by telling them that you'll only remove it if they can explain exactly why they think they have a valid reason.

I don't believe there is any chance they could persue this legally as they would be bound to fail - it's just idle threats.

I'd be inclined to re-upload with an opening statement about their bogus claim

BTW if anyone has any spare Ericsson basestation kit they'd like to send me, I'd be happy to tear it apart!

Quote
So if you put up a video showing Ericsson threatening your video, can they then claim "defamation"
Only if you say something that is not true.  Saying they are threatening when all they have done is a bogus copyright claim could be construed that way, so just stick to the facts.

Quote
2) Contact Ericsson directly, I got a contact email with the strike, but what should I write them? (Clearly they just wanted the video gone)
Ask them to state exactly what they are claiming, and tell them that you will not remove content until they have shown there is an infringement, and that failure to reply will constitute acceptance that they have no case

Quote
I would kindly ask Ericsson to grant me a permission to show that stuff in my video.
Don't do this.  You do not need permission.  An explicit refusal may put you at some sort of disadvantage, though I doubt it.
 
You own it, you can do what you like with it,  end of.



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Online wraper

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2020, 09:51:21 pm »
All of OP's videos are like the one removed. If he gives in on one, they'll try to take down his whole channel (and any/all of the income he gets from it). Hence the $20.
There are no other Ericsson videos.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #65 on: February 06, 2020, 09:55:31 pm »
From the terms for someone filing a copyright complaint :
Quote
2. A description of your work that you believe has been infringed

In your complaint, make sure that you clearly and completely describe the copyrighted content that you're seeking to protect. If multiple copyrighted works are covered in your complaint, the law allows a representative list of such works.

Has this information been forwarded ?

Quote
4. You must agree to and include the following statement:

'I believe in good faith that the use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorised by the copyright owner, its agent or the law'.

"Not authorised" - but that could cover anything - the issue here is whether any authorisation is required
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Offline brainstorm

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2020, 09:59:26 pm »
Quote
I never revealed any software but only what you can see on the hardware. Simple reverse engineering.

Why would "revealing software" be **that** fundamentally different from the hardware-only teardowns you are doing? I have an Anritsu spectrum analyzer that I would like to repair, hardware is fine but software is not working:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/anritsu-ms2721b-internal-cf-card-missing/msg2638362/#msg2638362
https://blogs.nopcode.org/brainstorm/anritsu-ms2721b-spectrum-analyzer/

Shall I expect more copyright claims coming my way because I'm trying to fix the **software** instead of the **hardware**? I'm not trying to diminish the whole point of your thread, I think it really sucks you got that copyright claim from Ericsson.

This is a honest, curious question on where that "software vs hardware" different treatment in terms of reverse engineering and its perception might come from? :-S
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 10:10:08 pm by brainstorm »
 

Offline madsbarnkobTopic starter

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2020, 10:09:46 pm »
All of OP's videos are like the one removed. If he gives in on one, they'll try to take down his whole channel (and any/all of the income he gets from it). Hence the $20.
There are no other Ericsson videos.

Not anymore.

Quote
I never revealed any software but only what you can see on the hardware. Simple reverse engineering.

Why would "revealing software" be **that** fundamentally different from the hardware-only teardowns you are doing? I have an Anritsu spectrum analyzer that I would like to repair, hardware is fine but software is not working:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/anritsu-ms2721b-internal-cf-card-missing/msg2638362/#msg2638362
https://blogs.nopcode.org/brainstorm/anritsu-ms2721b-spectrum-analyzer/

Shall I expect more copyright claims coming my way because I'm trying to fix the **software** instead of the **hardware**? I'm not trying to diminish the whole point of your thread, I think it really sucks you got that copyright claim from Ericsson.

This is a honest, curious question on where that "software vs hardware" perception might come from? :-S

I got no idea aka IANAL (I learned that from this thread)

But reproducing the code would be reproducing their copyrighted material. Showing hardware with patents on it is not reproducing a product.

Remember those cases some years back about car companies having copyright over the software in cars to by far extend of the law you never owned your own car.

Offline brainstorm

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2020, 10:24:28 pm »
Quote
I got no idea aka IANAL (I learned that from this thread)

But reproducing the code would be reproducing their copyrighted material. Showing hardware with patents on it is not reproducing a product.

Remember those cases some years back about car companies having copyright over the software in cars to by far extend of the law you never owned your own car.

IANAL either, but if I write a blog post or a video of me fiddling with radare2, GHidra, Binary Ninja changing assembly opcodes, does that really constitute "reproducing the code"? My insight from a friend who works on infosec was that the legal offense is in **redistributing** their **modified** binaries without permission.

This is also why this Ericsson claim does not hold since you are really not redistributing/reselling anything. You are "just" showing facts laid on top of a multilayer copper board as entertainment, nothing else... to my untrained, non-lawyer eyes, that is.

Anyway, I guess that a youtube video of a hex editor flipping bits constitutes a channel for (modified) firmware redistribution nowadays :-?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 10:48:11 pm by brainstorm »
 

Offline ve7xen

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2020, 10:52:35 pm »
Modified or unmodified, redistributing binaries would be in violation. The 'problem' is that derivative works are also protected, and you could (not successfully, I would hope) argue that since the video contains 'significant portions' of the copyright work, that it is a derivative, and thus subject to the same copyright protection. I don't think this would fly thanks to fair use, but you could at least make the attempt.

The difference with physical objects, unlike software, is that they are not protected by copyright at all. There's no protected work to argue has been distributed.
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2020, 02:36:46 am »
Wow that blows but I'm sadly not surprised.  IP law sucks and only caters to the rich.  As stupid as it is, it probably is infringement as lot of that tech is probably considered "secret".  It kind of goes with the right to repair stuff.  In some cases it's illegal for you to open or modify a product.  Ex: John Deere stuff.   So this probably falls under that.  When you own this equipment you're just buying a license to use it, you don't actually own the product.  I absolutely hate this crap myself and don't agree with it.

Could maybe win if you fought it and had enough money to throw at a lawyer, but not sure if it's worth it.  That's the big issue with IP law, it only really caters to the rich.  Even if they are legally in the wrong it costs the defendant too much money to win.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2020, 02:48:00 am »
Not really, it's a pretty accurate assessment. Every time someone just rolls over and takes it, companies are encouraged to continue this sort of bullying.

Indeed.
Sagon just won a huge legal precedence Youtube case.
TLDR; The US court ruled that even a video with no commentary or other text, just 100% original content sliced together still easily meets the Fair Use guidelines.
This is huge. If such a borderline case is easily Fair Use then practically everything else is as well, let alone content that is 100% your own footage.



Full legal reading:
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2020, 02:53:40 am »
So if you put up a video showing Ericsson threatening your video, can they then claim "defamation".

No, they cannot, unless you are dumb enough to say something that isn't true. Facts are not defamation.

 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2020, 02:55:42 am »
IANAL but AIUI there is nothing to lose by telling them that you'll only remove it if they can explain exactly why they think they have a valid reason.
I don't believe there is any chance they could persue this legally as they would be bound to fail - it's just idle threats.

Yes. Dispute the claim and see what happens. Likely they will be so shocked you actually contested it that they won't know what to do next and the time limit will expire and you'll automatically win.

Quote
I'd be inclined to re-upload with an opening statement about their bogus claim

If they push it, yep, do that.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2020, 03:00:25 am »
Seriously, this video needs to be re-uploaded to another site so that everyone can see and understand the context, and perhaps other Youtubers can make videos from it. If the OP can't do that then the fight has already been lost.
 
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