Author Topic: [SOLVED] Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?  (Read 29289 times)

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Offline ve7xen

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2020, 03:11:06 am »
Wow that blows but I'm sadly not surprised.  IP law sucks and only caters to the rich.  As stupid as it is, it probably is infringement as lot of that tech is probably considered "secret".  It kind of goes with the right to repair stuff.  In some cases it's illegal for you to open or modify a product.  Ex: John Deere stuff.   So this probably falls under that.  When you own this equipment you're just buying a license to use it, you don't actually own the product.  I absolutely hate this crap myself and don't agree with it.

Could maybe win if you fought it and had enough money to throw at a lawyer, but not sure if it's worth it.  That's the big issue with IP law, it only really caters to the rich.  Even if they are legally in the wrong it costs the defendant too much money to win.

There is a lot of misunderstanding in this post. There are two ways to protect 'trade knowledge'. One of them is patent - your idea is legally protected from others using it for profit but you must release full details which are filed at the patent office for anyone interested to read. The other is trade secret, which is protected only by civil agreements (ie. both parties agree to not tell anyone about the thing); it doesn't protect against reverse engineering or other parties that have not agreed to the secrecy sharing information on it that they obtain by legal means (such as tearing down a legally purchased item).

Right to repair is about legislation stopping companies from creating technical (cryptographic locks) or policy (refusing to sell replacement parts, especially when cryptographic locks exist) roadblocks, it's not about making things legal that previously weren't. It is never 'illegal' to open a product you own or modify it, but it may be made difficult with strong encryption, etc. - this is no different than using security screws as far as legality is concerned - it doesn't change what it is legal for you to do, it just makes it more challenging. The one caveat here is the DMCA in the US may apply to some cryptographic protections if they can successfully argue that it is a 'copy protection mechanism', which is a huge stretch for a tractor DRMing parts. Lexmark lost a case they brought on similar grounds. But in general, if you own a thing legally, you can do whatever you want with it other than copy and distribute it (if it is a work protected by copyright).
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 03:13:11 am by ve7xen »
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Offline edy

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2020, 03:51:47 am »
Not exactly the same thing, but Louis Rossman is dealing with this B.S. all the time. It's a miracle his channel continues to exist given the number of corporations (and now lobbyists) he ticks off. One thing Louis does is he doesn't shut up and hide in the corner about it, but gets even more vocal and produces several more videos about it. I think people realise that if they are going to mess with Louis, he will just keep making more and more video rants about it.  :-DD  Perhaps this can be a lesson to those which have to deal with this kind of abuse of the YouTube system.

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Offline Zucca

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2020, 08:39:14 am »
Seriously, this video needs to be re-uploaded to another site

If one day I will start a YT channel, I will post on Vimeo too. I do not like how YT is managing videos but everybody (me included) are watching 99% just YT stuff.

Not exactly the same thing, but Louis Rossman is dealing with this B.S. all the time. It's a miracle his channel continues to exist given the number of corporations (and now lobbyists) he ticks off.

Funny also good Luis has a parallel Vimeo channel, AND he is mentioning it in his YT Videos even with an overlay Vimeo logo.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 10:40:11 am by Zucca »
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Offline magic

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2020, 09:05:02 am »
It could also be reuploaded by anynone to YT, but somebody would need to have downloaded it first :-//

Good case for downloading anything you want to last instead of trusting hosting companies to keep it available to you indefinitely ;)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2020, 09:37:48 am »
Good case for downloading anything you want to last instead of trusting hosting companies to keep it available to you indefinitely ;)

I have every single master copy of my videos since #1, and even the original raw files.
When you download from Youtube it's not the same quality you uploaded it in.
 

Offline madsbarnkobTopic starter

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2020, 09:51:31 am »
Seriously, this video needs to be re-uploaded to another site so that everyone can see and understand the context, and perhaps other Youtubers can make videos from it. If the OP can't do that then the fight has already been lost.

Good case for downloading anything you want to last instead of trusting hosting companies to keep it available to you indefinitely ;)

I have every single master copy of my videos since #1, and even the original raw files.
When you download from Youtube it's not the same quality you uploaded it in.

I got all my original files as well, material to 200 videos is a lot of work to just throw out if Youtube threw me out :)

I will upload a copy of video in question with private access via link and post here

Offline max_torque

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #81 on: February 07, 2020, 11:46:34 am »
The stupidest thing about this claim is that it is totally irrelevant to Ericson, because all their competitors will have already bought/sourced and competely reverse engineed their commercial products anyway!

I work in the car industry, all the manufacturers buy each others models and tear them down and reverse engineer them as soon as that product is released onto the public market.  For example, Ford release the latest Focus, and VW simply walk into a Ford dealer, and buy one, take it away, and carry out a complete "competitor bench" marking exercise on it.  The cost of the car(s) is irrelevant, compared to the cost of the teardown study anmd reporting.  I've even seen some of the big OEs buy competitor cars from dealers, and crash them to learn how they perform for example.

So the fact that someone on youtube has shown some (minor) details, which frankly wouldn't enable anyone to actually engineer anything, is totally irrelevant. Once the product is in the public domain, then unless it's "Uniqueness" is covered by patents, preventing someone else profiting from those details, it's fair game......  (and as mentioned those patents don't prevent the investigation, discussion or education of those details)
 
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Offline LaF0rge

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2020, 02:27:23 pm »
Hi @madsbarnkob,

I've been doing quite a bit of work in the past in the area of open source, copyright, IT security and reverse engineering (see gpl-violations.org).  While I'm not a lawayer, I do know quite a number of lawyers who are considered experts in the field of all areas of IT law.

I just pointed out this case to them, asking for input.  The initial response so far is - as expected - very clear:

Quote
I think any "IPR" they might have on the teardown matter are more than overcome by fair use
considerations. Trademarks, copyright, schematics. Patents of course don't even come to relevance here.

He should definitely submit counter notification, IMHO. The claim is vague, unsubstantiated, frivolous. In
a notice Ericsson must say which IPR (trademark?) is infringed and how. IPR is a non-word. This looks like
a case of "SLAPP" in a different venue.

Please feel free to reach out to me by private mail in case you have questions or would like to get in touch.

btw: In our work of more than a a decade at osmocom.org, we have been doing  plenty of investigation of Ericsson [and other] cellular base stations, too - much beyond just looking at circuit boards and we never have been approached by Ericsson.  See https://osmocom.org/projects/ericsson-rbs-6xxx/wiki, or the support for Siemens, Nokia and Ericsson Abis in osmo-bsc, ...

I'm also behind a number of reverse-engineered wireshark dissectors for Ericsson proprietary protocools, see https://github.com/wireshark/wireshark/blob/master/epan/dissectors/packet-gsm_abis_om2000.c and the like.  Once again, I've never heard of any Ericsson claims being made.
 
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Offline edy

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #83 on: February 07, 2020, 07:03:51 pm »
Good case for downloading anything you want to last instead of trusting hosting companies to keep it available to you indefinitely ;)

I have every single master copy of my videos since #1, and even the original raw files.
When you download from Youtube it's not the same quality you uploaded it in.

Too late for me... I ran out of space a while ago and only have part of my channel's original files. I will have to rely on YouTube copies to download for backups. I'm not that particular about it as my videos are not Oscar-worthy material and I make practically no income from it (just beer and coffee money). Nevertheless I should try to keep originals if I am going forward. I'll have to compare a YouTube download with my original upload source and see if I can perceive quality difference and if worth the file size difference. Not sure if anyone has done that already and can report on the findings.
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Offline madsbarnkobTopic starter

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #84 on: February 07, 2020, 07:25:13 pm »
Hi @madsbarnkob,

I've been doing quite a bit of work in the past in the area of open source, copyright, IT security and reverse engineering (see gpl-violations.org).  While I'm not a lawayer, I do know quite a number of lawyers who are considered experts in the field of all areas of IT law.

I just pointed out this case to them, asking for input.  The initial response so far is - as expected - very clear:

Quote
I think any "IPR" they might have on the teardown matter are more than overcome by fair use
considerations. Trademarks, copyright, schematics. Patents of course don't even come to relevance here.

He should definitely submit counter notification, IMHO. The claim is vague, unsubstantiated, frivolous. In
a notice Ericsson must say which IPR (trademark?) is infringed and how. IPR is a non-word. This looks like
a case of "SLAPP" in a different venue.

Please feel free to reach out to me by private mail in case you have questions or would like to get in touch.

btw: In our work of more than a a decade at osmocom.org, we have been doing  plenty of investigation of Ericsson [and other] cellular base stations, too - much beyond just looking at circuit boards and we never have been approached by Ericsson.  See https://osmocom.org/projects/ericsson-rbs-6xxx/wiki, or the support for Siemens, Nokia and Ericsson Abis in osmo-bsc, ...

I'm also behind a number of reverse-engineered wireshark dissectors for Ericsson proprietary protocools, see https://github.com/wireshark/wireshark/blob/master/epan/dissectors/packet-gsm_abis_om2000.c and the like.  Once again, I've never heard of any Ericsson claims being made.

I can see you signed up just to help me, that is highly appreciated, thank you for the advice and offer to help further.

I am awaiting reply from Ericsson lawyer and youtube support, so for now its mostly waiting. But I must admit that so far into the thread I am no longer that scared from filing a counter claim.

I uploaded the video in reduced resolution, due to basic vimeo account limitations. It is almost 3 years old by now and I learned a lot more about RF since then, so take what I say with a grain of salt, maybe its better to stay off the internet, was it not for the principal in not being strong armed :)

  (password: eevblog)

edit: I can see I also got better at growing a mustache.

edit edit: I succeeded with uploading the 3206 video instead of the 3202, but there is no difference in what is shown or how, and now i used my bandwidth on vimeo for the week.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 09:45:12 am by madsbarnkob »
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #85 on: February 07, 2020, 10:31:32 pm »
Wow that blows but I'm sadly not surprised.  IP law sucks and only caters to the rich.  As stupid as it is, it probably is infringement as lot of that tech is probably considered "secret".  It kind of goes with the right to repair stuff.  In some cases it's illegal for you to open or modify a product.  Ex: John Deere stuff.   So this probably falls under that.  When you own this equipment you're just buying a license to use it, you don't actually own the product.  I absolutely hate this crap myself and don't agree with it.

Could maybe win if you fought it and had enough money to throw at a lawyer, but not sure if it's worth it.  That's the big issue with IP law, it only really caters to the rich.  Even if they are legally in the wrong it costs the defendant too much money to win.

There is a lot of misunderstanding in this post. There are two ways to protect 'trade knowledge'. One of them is patent - your idea is legally protected from others using it for profit but you must release full details which are filed at the patent office for anyone interested to read. The other is trade secret, which is protected only by civil agreements (ie. both parties agree to not tell anyone about the thing); it doesn't protect against reverse engineering or other parties that have not agreed to the secrecy sharing information on it that they obtain by legal means (such as tearing down a legally purchased item).

Right to repair is about legislation stopping companies from creating technical (cryptographic locks) or policy (refusing to sell replacement parts, especially when cryptographic locks exist) roadblocks, it's not about making things legal that previously weren't. It is never 'illegal' to open a product you own or modify it, but it may be made difficult with strong encryption, etc. - this is no different than using security screws as far as legality is concerned - it doesn't change what it is legal for you to do, it just makes it more challenging. The one caveat here is the DMCA in the US may apply to some cryptographic protections if they can successfully argue that it is a 'copy protection mechanism', which is a huge stretch for a tractor DRMing parts. Lexmark lost a case they brought on similar grounds. But in general, if you own a thing legally, you can do whatever you want with it other than copy and distribute it (if it is a work protected by copyright).


The corporations don't care though.  They will just use whatever law they feel fits and then use that as a reason for the take down or worse, a lawsuit.   There's lot of complexity in IP law and what is considered infringement and what is not and you need top notch lawyers to sort it all out, so it's easy for companies to make a claim even if perhaps it's not a valid claim.   The worse is the fact that these laws are very over reaching.  If you live in another country you still need to follow the US IP laws and they can still sue you or take down your stuff. 


As a side note I recently setup my channel to auto mirror to LBRY, might be worth looking into as well.  At the very least you could make a video that is a very short blurb then link to the full one.  (Bet Youtube won't like this though and still take it down, but worth a shot)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 10:33:55 pm by Red Squirrel »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Offline rdl

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #87 on: February 08, 2020, 12:46:40 am »
That must be a link just for the owner/creator, try:

Code: [Select]
https://vimeo.com/390045237
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 12:48:16 am by rdl »
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #88 on: February 08, 2020, 01:38:37 am »
Good case for downloading anything you want to last instead of trusting hosting companies to keep it available to you indefinitely ;)

I have every single master copy of my videos since #1, and even the original raw files.
When you download from Youtube it's not the same quality you uploaded it in.

Can I ask a silly question? Why wouldn't you? Who spends hours on crafting a 30min video and then dumps the originals after uploading it?

iratus parum formica
 
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Offline rdl

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #89 on: February 08, 2020, 01:47:54 am »
"This video is private"

You didn't get a password entry box with "Submit" button?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #90 on: February 08, 2020, 02:14:46 am »
"This video is private"
You didn't get a password entry box with "Submit" button?

Oh, yep, scratch that, it works.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #91 on: February 08, 2020, 02:18:28 am »
Good case for downloading anything you want to last instead of trusting hosting companies to keep it available to you indefinitely ;)
I have every single master copy of my videos since #1, and even the original raw files.
When you download from Youtube it's not the same quality you uploaded it in.
Can I ask a silly question? Why wouldn't you? Who spends hours on crafting a 30min video and then dumps the originals after uploading it?

Tons of creators that I know. Extremely common to just delete the original raw files, and still fairly common not to keep original renders after uploading them.
My entire master upload directory for all my videos from #1 over the last decade only takes 1.8TB
I can understand not keeping original footage if you one of those crazies that shoot in raw or extreme file rates just because you can, but not keeping master rendered uploads is insane.
 
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #92 on: February 08, 2020, 05:24:59 pm »
Yeah always keep the masters at the very least.  I only started doing this a few years ago but I now have a folder for each of my video with a file that has the title, description and other info, and the rendered file as well as a folder with all the original video files.  If it started to take too much space I could go and delete those but I would never delete the final renders.

This goes for anything really, even stuff I put on my own website or pictures I upload to the internet, I always have a local copy.  I never rely on a 3rd party for the sole copy of something.
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #93 on: February 08, 2020, 06:42:16 pm »

I work in the car industry, all the manufacturers buy each others models and tear them down and reverse engineer them as soon as that product is released onto the public market.
Right, I used to go up to Dearborn, MI for an annual meeting.  That's Ford's corporate home town.  You'd be driving down the street past one of their buildings, and there'd be the totally stripped chassis of some other maker's car sitting on blocks out in the parking lot.  It would change every week or two.

Jon
 
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Online Siwastaja

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #94 on: February 08, 2020, 09:29:06 pm »
Big deal ! Just remove the video and go on with your life. What is so special in it that may worth a fight.
Give me $20 or I'll punch you. It's not worth the fight, just pay.
That is a strawman. Look it up in you favourite dictionary if you do not know what strawman argument is.

No, it's definitely not a strawman, it's a 1:1 direct same thing - illegal threat, asking someone to give up their legal rights to do normal everyday things (like film videos on Youtube, or walk on the street without getting punched). Quite literally the only difference (in addition to legal punch vs. physical punch) is, in this example, you are now the one being affected, hence your attitude totally changes, showing that you are just being selfish, and ignoring basic human rights when it's not about you, but changing your mind as soon as it's about you.

Still, you are likely right in a practical sense. If a large corporation abuses me, I likely give up my rights to be safe just in case, exactly like if a bodybuilder on the street demands $20 or threats punching me, I'll give up as well. But once in a safe place, I may report it; to police, or, for example, by getting publicity. Victim blaming, OTOH, really sucks hard, stop doing it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 09:32:12 pm by Siwastaja »
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #95 on: February 08, 2020, 09:37:02 pm »
Big deal ! Just remove the video and go on with your life. What is so special in it that may worth a fight.
Give me $20 or I'll punch you. It's not worth the fight, just pay.
That is a strawman. Look it up in you favourite dictionary if you do not know what strawman argument is.

No, it's definitely not a strawman, it's a 1:1 direct same thing - illegal threat, asking someone to give up their legal rights to do normal everyday things (like film videos on Youtube, or walk on the street without getting punched). Quite literally the only difference (in addition to legal punch vs. physical punch) is, in this example, you are now the one being affected, hence your attitude totally changes, showing that you are just being selfish, and ignoring basic human rights when it's not about you, but changing your mind as soon as it's about you.

Still, you are likely right in a practical sense. If a large corporation abuses me, I likely give up my rights to be safe just in case, exactly like if a bodybuilder on the street demands $20 or threats punching me, I'll give up as well. But once in a safe place, I may report it; to police, or, for example, by getting publicity. Victim blaming, OTOH, really sucks hard, stop doing it.

You have to face the fact that certain individuals in the society are just coward, lack of strength to fight or stand for even the basic and primitive principal of their own right, it happened all the times.

Offline Brent88

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #96 on: February 08, 2020, 10:35:46 pm »
I did a tear down of a sony dvd recorder have not gotten a strike from sony

 this recorder had pretty sloppy support from SONY   but I figured out how to "fix" them  and made bank on it      ;D

well tell  i could no longer get replacement parts(i replaced the laser dongle ) I made bulk purchase of 40 units lasers (some were dead but  was able to salvage a bunch of the lasers)  :D  i did atempt to use other DVD rw lasers  but sony had some custom rolled stuff  :-//
 

Online langwadt

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #97 on: February 08, 2020, 11:06:49 pm »
Not exactly the same thing, but Louis Rossman is dealing with this B.S. all the time. It's a miracle his channel continues to exist given the number of corporations (and now lobbyists) he ticks off. One thing Louis does is he doesn't shut up and hide in the corner about it, but gets even more vocal and produces several more videos about it. I think people realise that if they are going to mess with Louis, he will just keep making more and more video rants about it.  :-DD  Perhaps this can be a lesson to those which have to deal with this kind of abuse of the YouTube system.



to  some extend they got what they wanted, afaiu per youtube standard the videos are down until the issue has been resolved 


 

Offline tooki

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2020, 12:44:05 am »
I did a tear down of a sony dvd recorder have not gotten a strike from sony

 this recorder had pretty sloppy support from SONY   but I figured out how to "fix" them  and made bank on it      ;D

well tell  i could no longer get replacement parts(i replaced the laser dongle ) I made bulk purchase of 40 units lasers (some were dead but  was able to salvage a bunch of the lasers)  :D  i did atempt to use other DVD rw lasers  but sony had some custom rolled stuff  :-//
Duh. Sony actually makes drives. Sony makes laser pickups (I assume that’s what you mean by “laser dongle”) that OTHER companies buy and put in their own players. Sony most certainly isn’t going to be buying laser pickups from others! That’d be like BMW buying engines from Ford...
 

Offline Brent88

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Re: Ericsson slammed me with a Copyright Strike on a Teardown video, help!?
« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2020, 01:26:09 am »
that was the last year sony rolled it's own for dvd recorders  these lasers would self detecute if you put the wrong disc (i.e 8 or 16x disc would brick it you had to use x2 or x4 speed discs)even some Hollywood discs would damage the laser

even the two LARGE circuit boards,PSU were rolled by sony.. the only thing that was not made by sony was the HDD unit it was OEM maxtor drives

the next sony DVD recorders had Lite-on drives.  :-DD
 


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