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PlainName:
This is all very Y2K-ish hindsight.

I don't see any way some particular thing would or wouldn't've happened had we done or not done something - it is all pure conjecture. All we can really say is that we did so-and-so (or not) and such-and-such happened (or not). Anything else is a 'grass was greener over there' fiction based entirely on one's viewpoint.

Maybe we can move of from this sometime. If you need to keep dragging it up, perhaps give a thoughtful solution for handling the next killer pandemic better.
Zero999:

--- Quote from: PlainName on February 04, 2023, 10:03:03 pm ---This is all very Y2K-ish hindsight.

I don't see any way some particular thing would or wouldn't've happened had we done or not done something - it is all pure conjecture. All we can really say is that we did so-and-so (or not) and such-and-such happened (or not). Anything else is a 'grass was greener over there' fiction based entirely on one's viewpoint.

Maybe we can move of from this sometime. If you need to keep dragging it up, perhaps give a thoughtful solution for handling the next killer pandemic better.

--- End quote ---
What makes you think that? I can't see any similarity with Y2k. China maintained lockdown for nearly 3 years, whilst Sweden didn't do it at all, yet in both cases everyone got it, regardless.
SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 04, 2023, 06:29:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: MadScientist on February 04, 2023, 03:45:43 pm ---There was not and cannot be a eu wide mandatory vaccine policy. It’s a national decision that’s all. Some countries brought in rules for certain categories of people.

Again the mistaken notion being peddled by some here of eu wide mandatory vaccine policy is completely false the EU does not have a legal basis for such action.

Most eu counties did not enforce widespread vaccine mandates at all in fact.

--- End quote ---
No one said the EU mandated it. Many people are critical of the EU for going along with it and failing to take action against member states who committed human rights abuses, even if they thought they were doing go. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

--- End quote ---

Absolutely, but in this particular case, the fact it was all done with good intentions is dubious.
PlainName:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 04, 2023, 10:09:38 pm ---
--- Quote from: PlainName on February 04, 2023, 10:03:03 pm ---This is all very Y2K-ish hindsight.

I don't see any way some particular thing would or wouldn't've happened had we done or not done something - it is all pure conjecture. All we can really say is that we did so-and-so (or not) and such-and-such happened (or not). Anything else is a 'grass was greener over there' fiction based entirely on one's viewpoint.

Maybe we can move of from this sometime. If you need to keep dragging it up, perhaps give a thoughtful solution for handling the next killer pandemic better.

--- End quote ---
What makes you think that? I can't see any similarity with Y2k. China maintained lockdown for nearly 3 years, whilst Sweden didn't do it at all, yet in both cases everyone got it, regardless.

--- End quote ---

China and Sweden are completely different - population, location, vaccination effectiveness, infectiousness of it, etc. Why not compare Sweden with Italy, where it was pretty much a massacre at the start?

The point is that you can't say "if they'd done such-and-such this would happen, or not happen". The fact is they didn't (or did, as the case may be), and history tells us what actually occurred. Anything else is conjecture. Even when you try to compare incomparable situations, you are showing that the outcome wasn't determinable beforehand.

I'm not intending to get involved in this game, but if you want to play then put yourself in the position of a country looking at somewhere like Italy where they are dropping like flies, completely overwhelmed, and figuring that if you do nothing then your city or country is probably two weeks away from being the same. You can use all the hindsight you've gained from Covid, so you already have a leg up.

As I say, if you have to keep warming this up then figuring out a workable response is surely better than the continuous arguments over unprovable make-believe.
Zero999:

--- Quote from: PlainName on February 04, 2023, 10:51:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 04, 2023, 10:09:38 pm ---
--- Quote from: PlainName on February 04, 2023, 10:03:03 pm ---This is all very Y2K-ish hindsight.

I don't see any way some particular thing would or wouldn't've happened had we done or not done something - it is all pure conjecture. All we can really say is that we did so-and-so (or not) and such-and-such happened (or not). Anything else is a 'grass was greener over there' fiction based entirely on one's viewpoint.

Maybe we can move of from this sometime. If you need to keep dragging it up, perhaps give a thoughtful solution for handling the next killer pandemic better.

--- End quote ---
What makes you think that? I can't see any similarity with Y2k. China maintained lockdown for nearly 3 years, whilst Sweden didn't do it at all, yet in both cases everyone got it, regardless.

--- End quote ---

China and Sweden are completely different - population, location, vaccination effectiveness, infectiousness of it, etc. Why not compare Sweden with Italy, where it was pretty much a massacre at the start?

The point is that you can't say "if they'd done such-and-such this would happen, or not happen". The fact is they didn't (or did, as the case may be), and history tells us what actually occurred. Anything else is conjecture. Even when you try to compare incomparable situations, you are showing that the outcome wasn't determinable beforehand.

I'm not intending to get involved in this game, but if you want to play then put yourself in the position of a country looking at somewhere like Italy where they are dropping like flies, completely overwhelmed, and figuring that if you do nothing then your city or country is probably two weeks away from being the same. You can use all the hindsight you've gained from Covid, so you already have a leg up.

As I say, if you have to keep warming this up then figuring out a workable response is surely better than the continuous arguments over unprovable make-believe.

--- End quote ---
My point is the infection spread worldwide the same, irrespective of the actions of the authorities, or lack of thereof. The fact the extreme reaction of many governments had so many negative consequences, they should carry the burden of proof they were right, not those who question them.
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