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eugene:

--- Quote from: tom66 on May 14, 2022, 10:50:30 am ---
--- Quote from: eugene on May 13, 2022, 03:57:53 pm ---So the independent EU countries are not only bound to laws written by the EU Commission, but are required to use their own criminal justice system to enforce those laws?

That seems wrong to me ideologically. But I suppose if everyone agrees to it...

--- End quote ---

Once again, the laws are passed by the parliament and not the commission.
--- End quote ---

Please forgive my ignorance of how things are done in the EU (even the US for that matter.)

When you mention 'parliament', is that an EU parliament, or parliaments of individual countries?


--- Quote ---You don't believe, in the US (for instance), that senators write their own bills?  In the vast majority of cases, these are drafted by executive departments, lawyers, clerks, and so on.  That's really no different to the commission.

The laws still have to pass the parliament, which is elected by the people of the EU. 

The Commission actually has very little executive power, unlike in the US for instance where the President can issue executive orders.  That's not really possible in the EU.

--- End quote ---

As I already admitted, my knowledge of these things in the US is not deep, despite having lived here for [redacted] years. In any case, my impression is that some federal (US) laws are enforced by the federal government with their own criminal justice departments (mainly FBI) and federal courts. Other federal laws might be expected to be enforced by the individual states using their own criminal justice systems. But in the end, whether or not the individual states choose to enforce the federal laws is effectively up to them. In some cases a state might choose to go in a different direction and write laws that contradict federal laws. I don't know if this is specifically allowed by federal legislation (I doubt it) but the federal government typically doesn't pursue these matters legally.

The consequence (as I see it) is that federal laws in the US are meaningful only if individual states no not choose to explicitly over ride them with state laws.

Back to the distinction between legislation and enforcement: does the EU have its own police and courts, or is that left entirely to the individual countries.

langwadt:

--- Quote from: eugene on May 14, 2022, 11:57:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on May 14, 2022, 10:50:30 am ---
--- Quote from: eugene on May 13, 2022, 03:57:53 pm ---So the independent EU countries are not only bound to laws written by the EU Commission, but are required to use their own criminal justice system to enforce those laws?

That seems wrong to me ideologically. But I suppose if everyone agrees to it...

--- End quote ---

Once again, the laws are passed by the parliament and not the commission.
--- End quote ---

Please forgive my ignorance of how things are done in the EU (even the US for that matter.)

When you mention 'parliament', is that an EU parliament, or parliaments of individual countries?


--- End quote ---

commission writes the laws, parliament votes on adopting the laws

parliament members are elected in each countries

Simon:

--- Quote from: eugene on May 14, 2022, 11:57:57 pm ---

As I already admitted, my knowledge of these things in the US is not deep, despite having lived here for [redacted] years. In any case, my impression is that some federal (US) laws are enforced by the federal government with their own criminal justice departments (mainly FBI) and federal courts. Other federal laws might be expected to be enforced by the individual states using their own criminal justice systems. But in the end, whether or not the individual states choose to enforce the federal laws is effectively up to them. In some cases a state might choose to go in a different direction and write laws that contradict federal laws. I don't know if this is specifically allowed by federal legislation (I doubt it) but the federal government typically doesn't pursue these matters legally.

The consequence (as I see it) is that federal laws in the US are meaningful only if individual states no not choose to explicitly over ride them with state laws.

Back to the distinction between legislation and enforcement: does the EU have its own police and courts, or is that left entirely to the individual countries.



--- End quote ---

If you take the recent row about abortion law several states are ready to ban it if the ruling that abortions are to be allowed is overturned, this kind of tells me that a state makes laws within the framework of what the layer of legal system above dictates. I can't remember if other states would still allow abortions but this could also amount to the the rule being that you can allow them, or that you can ban them but not an all one way policy allowing individual states to have a one way choice but not a two way one ie complete independence.
magic:
Yes, there is an EU parliament with a mix of drones sent in from all countries.
magic:

--- Quote from: eugene on May 14, 2022, 11:57:57 pm ---Back to the distinction between legislation and enforcement: does the EU have its own police and courts, or is that left entirely to the individual countries.

--- End quote ---
Thankfully an EU police doesn't exist yet :phew:

But,
Every country is obliged to implement and enforce whatever "EU laws" are established following official procedures.
The EU and many member states will be happy to put political pressure on any outliers that refuse to do so.
The general climate in the world today is that mainstream parties are happy to adopt certain kinds of policies, whether dictated from "above" or on their own initiative.
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