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Monkeh:

--- Quote from: MadScientist on May 15, 2022, 11:37:30 am ---People can of course choose where they live within these national frameworks so you can pick the one you like!

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Because it's just a trivial, low cost exercise to up and move. Houses are cheap, jobs are plentiful, transport is free and there's always time in the day..
Simon:

--- Quote from: MadScientist on May 15, 2022, 10:53:02 am ---Clearly the Brexit BS,ers are out in force spreading more lies

The EU commission draws up legislative proposals as it is in effect the EU s civil service , in the case of ordinary law , the proposal must be jointly passed by the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union ( often called the  Council of ministers ) neither body under normal situations can make laws independent of the other . “ Brussels “ contrary to Brexit BS”er does not make community law.


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The fundamental problem is that most people do not understand how any of the governing systems work, and have no place commenting unless they do. Handily no school curriculum bothers to teach children how their society is run making each and every young adult fertile ground for wacky ideas about things that actually they could just go and find out about.

The last time we had a local election the local conservative party produced an entire leaflet mostly talking about voting for your local conservative candidate to "get brexit done". As far as I am concerned there should be rules about making these sorts of false statements. No matter which side you sit on, your local councillors have absolutely no bearing on the outcome of international politics/policy.

My father seems to think that people are just listening to our phone calls and will drive over to discuss anything important with me, despite my explaining that legally no one can tap your line without a court order or unless there is some other really, really good reason and in case he has not noticed, he's not at all relevant to anyone in the grand scheme of things.
Zero999:

--- Quote from: madires on May 13, 2022, 01:38:50 pm ---No worries! The Court of Justice of the European Union will declare that nonsense null and void sooner or later. We had similar cases already several times. The sad thing is that the EU Commission is repeatedly ignoring court decisions.

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Don't be so sure of it. They didn't do anything when governments imposed forced medical treatments on their citizens and banned peaceful protest.
PlainName:

--- Quote ---despite my explaining that legally no one can tap your line without a court order or unless there is some other really, really good reason
--- End quote ---

That should read that they shouldn't. But there is nothing to actually stop them doing so, and there are well-documented instances of both the security services and commercial entities doing exactly that. The (still!) ongoing phone hacking case that sunk the NotW is possibly the best known, and Snowdon let drop a lot of otherwise hidden stuff. I believe there have even been instances where it's wound up in court and the governmental service has been told what they did was illegal, but of course you can't throw a service in the nick so not a lot happens.


--- Quote --- he's not at all relevant to anyone in the grand scheme of things
--- End quote ---

And that's the problem. If your comms happen to trigger the AI or ML or whatever that's perusing it all, you're stuffed if you think you can just rationally explain you are a normal non-terrorist non-paedophile citizen going about your innocuous business. Computer says yes, so must be true. Nothing personal, like.

Edit: that reminds me that (literally) every other lamppost around here has sprouted a PTZ camera. No-one has ever asked us if we want them or explained what they are for or mentioned that they even exist.
Simon:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on May 15, 2022, 04:26:54 pm ---
--- Quote ---despite my explaining that legally no one can tap your line without a court order or unless there is some other really, really good reason
--- End quote ---

That should read that they shouldn't. But there is nothing to actually stop them doing so, and there are well-documented instances of both the security services and commercial entities doing exactly that. The (still!) ongoing phone hacking case that sunk the NotW is possibly the best known, and Snowdon let drop a lot of otherwise hidden stuff. I believe there have even been instances where it's wound up in court and the governmental service has been told what they did was illegal, but of course you can't throw a service in the nick so not a lot happens.


--- End quote ---

Yes but he thinks that this is like a regular thing they do legally, he knows so little that he does not understand that it's very remotely a chance, here and now. But of course if you listen to the news outlets BBC included it's all doom.

The news of the world were not tapping anyone. They simply broke into phone message boxes just like every other haker is trying to do, again, they are not after every citizen and it's still illegal so no point in trying to make a point with what criminals do, what they are doing is called criminal for a reason and no matter what various governments choose to do it is a separate issue.


--- Quote ---
--- Quote --- he's not at all relevant to anyone in the grand scheme of things
--- End quote ---

And that's the problem. If your comms happen to trigger the AI or ML or whatever that's perusing it all, you're stuffed if you think you can just rationally explain you are a normal non-terrorist non-paedophile citizen going about your innocuous business. Computer says yes, so must be true. Nothing personal, like.

Edit: that reminds me that (literally) every other lamppost around here has sprouted a PTZ camera. No-one has ever asked us if we want them or explained what they are for or mentioned that they even exist.


--- End quote ---

Well if you would like to pay an awful lot more tax to have a policeman/woman/couple on every corner lets do that. again I think the risks are being blown out of proportion. My local police cannot find the time to do much, there are not many of them, remember the man that was murdered by vigilantes as the police labelled him a nuisance caller? I have a body camera I keep handy as sadly there are no lamp post camera's around here so I have to DIYit.
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