EU mandantory chat control

[dave j]

really? I thought the statue ended up in the river/sea

Different statue

well was it before or after one was pulled down, I mean, cmon, context, in an environment of rampant protest and criminal damage someone throwing an egg at a statute is one thing. With none of that happening someone throwing an egg at a statue is something else, but this is exactly how all these stupid myths and characterizations start, by taking something totally out of context for point scoring.....

Probably this one. They put up a statue to Thatcher in her home town. Less than two hours later someone had egged it.

[SiliconWizard]

Egged? Wow! Dangerous terrorists!

[Simon]

Sounds like a right mess.

[Simon]

really? I thought the statue ended up in the river/sea

Different statue

well was it before or after one was pulled down, I mean, cmon, context, in an environment of rampant protest and criminal damage someone throwing an egg at a statute is one thing. With none of that happening someone throwing an egg at a statue is something else, but this is exactly how all these stupid myths and characterizations start, by taking something totally out of context for point scoring.....

Probably this one. They put up a statue to Thatcher in her home town. Less than two hours later someone had egged it.

And we are talking about these arrests?:

"Lincolnshire police confirmed it had received reports of criminal damage to the statue but no arrests had been made and inquiries were ongoing."

Oh sorry, NO arrests were made, maybe not the same statue.

[bd139]

Used to work in Grantham so this does not surprise me at all. The whole area is programmed for double-think: thatcher bad, oh we’ll vote conservative again! Oh plus being scared of anything non ayrian.

On topic, and I lack the ability to process this further at the moment apart from suggesting the EU can go and fuck themselves. I’m not sure how the human race, when self organising, almost universally votes to control and enslave in some way.  There should be limits on how many humans can self organise. Keep it under about 50 and it’s ok. That control would solve all the problems.

[MK14]

Keep it under about 50 and it’s ok. That control would solve all the problems.

Would that work ?
Analogy:
My group of 50 people, are still furious about your previous very rude comments about the Raspberry PI 4, and the fact it eats SD cards (data), during power up/down.  In retribution, you need to give us those Lenovo tiny PC's, you got to replace them, then you can have peace.

Yes, the EU in some respects, does seem to have become too big and somewhat unmanageable.  The Covid outbreak, and the mess ups surrounding their vaccination programme, seemed to show that.

[langwadt]

Used to work in Grantham so this does not surprise me at all. The whole area is programmed for double-think: thatcher bad, oh we’ll vote conservative again! Oh plus being scared of anything non ayrian.

On topic, and I lack the ability to process this further at the moment apart from suggesting the EU can go and fuck themselves. I’m not sure how the human race, when self organising, almost universally votes to control and enslave in some way.  There should be limits on how many humans can self organise. Keep it under about 50 and it’s ok. That control would solve all the problems.

who should impose that limit?

[bd139]

Alien overlords or malevolent artificial intelligence.

[bd139]

Keep it under about 50 and it’s ok. That control would solve all the problems.

Would that work ?
Analogy:
My group of 50 people, are still furious about your previous very rude comments about the Raspberry PI 4, and the fact it eats SD cards (data), during power up/down.  In retribution, you need to give us those Lenovo tiny PC's, you got to replace them, then you can have peace.

Yes, the EU in some respects, does seem to have become too big and somewhat unmanageable.  The Covid outbreak, and the mess ups surrounding their vaccination programme, seemed to show that.

The thing is it’s difficult for 50 people to actually do any damage.

My point was to throw an extreme in and see what mid ground comes out as sensible.

[MK14]

The thing is it’s difficult for 50 people to actually do any damage.

My point was to throw an extreme in and see what mid ground comes out as sensible.

My understanding is, from history books.  It is believed, we use to live in small tribes/villages of around 150 to 200 people, per settlement.  Perhaps tens of thousands of years ago.  A bit like the large groups of native Monkeys, that can be observed in the wild.

I wonder what an internet and mobile phone service, would look like.  If it only had up to 200 individuals in it.  Per village/settlement.

Anyway, a good question.  What is the optimal population size, per unit (country, state, etc) ?

[dave j]

And we are talking about these arrests?:

"Lincolnshire police confirmed it had received reports of criminal damage to the statue but no arrests had been made and inquiries were ongoing."

Oh sorry, NO arrests were made, maybe not the same statue.

You are the only one who mentioned arrests, I just tried to provide some possible context. Given the egging of the Thatcher statue was in the news today, I thought it might be that one. We'll have to wait for themadhippy to clarify which statue they were referring to.

[dave j]

On topic, and I lack the ability to process this further at the moment apart from suggesting the EU can go and fuck themselves.

Were we still in the EU, the UK government would have been leading the charge to introduce this. They spent £500K trying to convince people that end to end encryption is for paedophiles earlier this year.

[SiliconWizard]

No doubt mass surveillance is a global trend. But the larger the political organization behind it, and the harder it is to stop, or at least slow down.

[themadhippy]

Indeed the thatcher statue. The police can respond in minutes to a report of egg throwing,meanwhile  many serious crimes are left un dealt with due to a lack of resources

[Simon]

Indeed the thatcher statue. The police can respond in minutes to a report of egg throwing,meanwhile  many serious crimes are left un dealt with due to a lack of resources

But you have still not backed up you claim and I even quoted for you, the police received reports, it does not say they attended or did a damn thing. Where do you live? Grantham is not far from where I work, if it's anything like as well to do as that or stamford they will have a better police force as they have money.

[Simon]

On topic, and I lack the ability to process this further at the moment apart from suggesting the EU can go and fuck themselves. I’m not sure how the human race, when self organising, almost universally votes to control and enslave in some way.  There should be limits on how many humans can self organise. Keep it under about 50 and it’s ok. That control would solve all the problems.

The problem is not the amount of humans, it's the capability of the humans to create operate and understand their own systems of governing so as to prevent a sub group usurping the system for their own minorities' benefit, usually this is the rich, the poor and therefore largely stupid will follow whatever lies they are told and too lazy to find the truth laying in plain site. The biggest monopoly is understanding the systems and therefor how to use them, this is also why the wealthy get what they want and tell the poor what they want, you go to the right post uni/college you get taught how to get on, normal poor simpletons go to universities that have been reduced to protection rackets handing our worthless sheets of hologrammed paper that sort of make it possible to earn enough to have a basic standard of living but still not enough toa think for yourself having spent 3 years copying out the answers to your assignments from the carefully curated texts the university gives you, and people wonder why we are in this mess.

[themadhippy]

But you have still not backed up you claim

Apart from hearing it earlier today on the radio news  most of the papers are saying the same thing,the independant for example

A man in a white T-shirt was seen holding an egg carton in one hand and preparing to throw an egg from the other on Sunday.

Egg residue and a piece of shell could be seen on the statue’s lower half.

Police turned up at the scene within minutes of the incident.

if it's anything like as well to do as that or stamford they will have a better police force as they have money.

doubtful,linconshire is the most underfunded force in the uk,and one of the most over stretched

[PlainName]

the poor and therefore largely stupid

Not at all prejudiced, then 

[Simon]

this is not an abortion debate!

[Simon]

the poor and therefore largely stupid

Not at all prejudiced, then 

Not from me, but the system that we all supposedly created. Just look at the political retoric, you telling me they are aiming that at the intelligent ones that vote for the low taxes - here, poor person, vote for us so that we stop those asylum seekers that are not entitled to work from taking your jobs, is the order of the day, to the point these national issues are the issues of local campaigns ? I'm not stupid by many must be judging by the poll results. 101 on how to control a population.

[Zero999]

despite my explaining that legally no one can tap your line without a court order or unless there is some other really, really good reason

That should read that they shouldn't. But there is nothing to actually stop them doing so, and there are well-documented instances of both the security services and commercial entities doing exactly that. The (still!) ongoing phone hacking case that sunk the NotW is possibly the best known, and Snowdon let drop a lot of otherwise hidden stuff. I believe there have even been instances where it's wound up in court and the governmental service has been told what they did was illegal, but of course you can't throw a service in the nick so not a lot happens.

he's not at all relevant to anyone in the grand scheme of things

And that's the problem. If your comms happen to trigger the AI or ML or whatever that's perusing it all, you're stuffed if you think you can just rationally explain you are a normal non-terrorist non-paedophile citizen going about your innocuous business. Computer says yes, so must be true. Nothing personal, like.

Edit: that reminds me that (literally) every other lamppost around here has sprouted a PTZ camera. No-one has ever asked us if we want them or explained what they are for or mentioned that they even exist.

Yes, AI is notoriously bad at this sort of thing. Try posting anything questioning current affairs in the YouTube comment section and watch it disappear, even if it's not that controversial.

I feel more comfortable with a government agent being allowed to snoop on my emails, rather than a machine. At least I know the government don't have the resources to spy on everyone. I still don't like the idea because the hate speech laws are so loosely defined, I think many people I know, including me, have been guilty of wrong think at some stage.

[MadScientist]

No worries! The Court of Justice of the European Union will declare that nonsense null and void sooner or later. We had similar cases already several times. The sad thing is that the EU Commission is repeatedly ignoring court decisions.

Don't be so sure of it. They didn't do anything when governments imposed forced medical treatments on their citizens and banned peaceful protest.

Given public health policy is not harmonised under EU treaty the EU centrally has in effect no domain on these matters

[MadScientist]

Keep it under about 50 and it’s ok. That control would solve all the problems.

Would that work ?
Analogy:
My group of 50 people, are still furious about your previous very rude comments about the Raspberry PI 4, and the fact it eats SD cards (data), during power up/down.  In retribution, you need to give us those Lenovo tiny PC's, you got to replace them, then you can have peace.

Yes, the EU in some respects, does seem to have become too big and somewhat unmanageable.  The Covid outbreak, and the mess ups surrounding their vaccination programme, seemed to show that.

You do understand that a resolution passed in the eu parliament has virtually zero standing or chance of being passed into law.

[Zero999]

No worries! The Court of Justice of the European Union will declare that nonsense null and void sooner or later. We had similar cases already several times. The sad thing is that the EU Commission is repeatedly ignoring court decisions.

Don't be so sure of it. They didn't do anything when governments imposed forced medical treatments on their citizens and banned peaceful protest.

Given public health policy is not harmonised under EU treaty the EU centrally has in effect no domain on these matters

That's true. It appears there's no protection against the state making its citizens take a drug, vaccine, or medical procedure.
https://www.echr.coe.int/documents/convention_eng.pdf

Anyway, back on topic: I can see this resulting in governments violating the right to freedom of expression.

[MK14]

You do understand that a resolution passed in the eu parliament has virtually zero standing or chance of being passed into law.

The thing is, this whole EU parliament thing.  Started out with good intentions, with a simple agreement as regards cows/beef and butter, to make a common market, between a small number of countries.  Which, eventually because of (political) feature creep, became the EU parliament and stuff, we have today.

I don't know the precise details.  But they seem to discuss and vote in, certain things.  Which seem to be put into actual laws, of the individual EU member states.

I think this mandatory chat control, is a very, very dangerous and slippery slope, in the control of free speech, and in effect news sources (indirectly).  If you look at Russia, an apparently very significant way their government is able to keep control of its people.  Is by basically lying all the time, in various TV media/newspapers/etc.
Even to the point of starting a full on war, while at the same time claiming Russia is being attacked, and there is no war (special operations).

So the EU, really is playing with fire, big time.  With the proposal/creation of new laws like this.  There is also the danger of a Trump like leader, getting into power.  Then using those new laws and infrastructure (information), to control the people.

Arguably, we need chat and things to be relatively free from political interference.  Because of nonsense, such as the Cambridge analytica scandal.

TL;DR
I think this new EU plans, are potentially very dangerous and a very, very bad idea.