General > General Technical Chat
EU votes to mandate removable batteries in smartphones
james_s:
--- Quote from: Infraviolet on June 19, 2023, 03:10:50 am ---No fan of governments/ groups of governments mandating anything, but forcing phones to have replacabale batteries is very sensible indeed, it should not have taken them so long to start insisting on it. However they probably should go further to, force phone manufacturers to have a fully standardised form factor for pouch cells, the way AA is a standard for alkaline and NiMH cells, and 18650 is a standard for hard cased lithium cylinder cells... Its actually very hard to find two pouch cells from different manufacturers with the same dimensions and capacity, makes it tricky to mechanically design things when you can't be sure you'll always have the same cell type available, let alone with the complexities phone manufacturers add by having different connector pinouts and contact shapes even on the same sized cell. A proper standardisation would be very welcome, and that way you'd be able to find decent quality replacement batteries made to that standard form factor from many decent generic manufacturers and the same sort from the official manufacturer, rather than the curent situation where there might be just one sketchy sounding manufacturer making copies (or sketchy manufactuers making doubly poor quaity copies then fake-marking them as official brand) of that weird shaped cell which the official manufacturer hasn't made for years. Would be helpful beyond hpoens too, if puch cells staretd to have proper standard designs it would make it much easier for designing things like small RC cars much easier(obviously high powered packs for higher performance RC are far bigger than phone related standard would help standardise).
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Replaceable or removable? I would like phone batteries to be replaceable, as in the phone is held together by screws and the battery is not glued in place and can be replaced without great difficulty or significant risk of destruction of the phone. I don't want to go back to the old clunky snap user removable battery packs though, that results in a phone that is more bulky than necessary and less water resistant. In general I don't think politicians should be legislating stuff like this though because most politicians are technologically inept and have no clue about engineering.
I've replaced batteries in older iPhones a number of times and found that to be acceptably easy, I think the latest was an iPhone 4 though so I don't know what modern ones are like.
james_s:
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 19, 2023, 05:44:59 pm ---That is the problem right there: you use these machines too little to always have a full battery when you start the work. So you'd have to prepare the night before by putting the batteries on the chargers and hope the chargers can keep up with your job. Especially when batteries start to wear out (after 5 years or so due to under-use) you'll see that needing batteries is becoming a nuisance. Been there, done that. No more battery powered tools for me! A tool with a cord just works immediately when you need it.
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I haven't found this to be an issue. Even my old Bosch NiMH powered drill batteries will hold a reasonable charge for several months, I've had them rebuilt once so far because I like the drill so much. My reciprocating saw, string trimmer and leaf blower all use Li-ion packs and those hold a charge indefinitely. Yes batteries can be a nuisance, but cords are FAR more of a nuisance. It was a happy day when I got my cordless blower and didn't have to drag an extension cord around on the roof, being sure not to trip over it, having it snag on the corner of shingles and roof vents, or worse, something on the ground forcing me to climb down off the roof to untangle it then go back up and finish cleaning out the gutters and blowing leaves off the roof. Same with my drill and saw, what a nuisance to drag a cord around in an attic or crawlspace, it tangles, it snares on things, or it's not quite long enough. A cord on a string trimmer is a pain, sometimes it's not long enough and when it is you still have to constantly be careful not to drag it over fragile plants and go un-snag it from shrubs and landscaping. Corded electric lawnmowers are even more hassle because you have to be careful not to mow the cord. I gave away all of my corded tools years ago except for my big circular saw, power miter saw, rotary tool and router. I hate cords, they're a hassle every single time I use the tool, batteries are only a hassle on occasion. Cordless has been a vastly superior experience for me, I can't imagine ever going back.
woody:
--- Quote from: nctnico on June 19, 2023, 12:55:50 pm ---Why would you want battery operated tools anyway?
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Because I want to be able to use my drill/screw driver/jigsaw in the garden, in the attic, on the roof or in my boat without having to find an extension cord and a working outlet. Because I hate standing on a ladder mounting plasterboard to a ceiling and having to make sure all the while I do not trip over the bloody cord every time I move.
I find the expression 'best invention since sliced bread' very much applicable to cordless electric tools. And since the NiCad/NiMH batteries made way for LiIon I find that I am able to use these cordless tools forever. They just keep going between charges, do not lose their charge while sitting on a shelf for months and they do not seem to wear out at all.
james_s:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on June 19, 2023, 05:40:29 pm ---Yes, it absolutely is. The consumers have absolutely no way of swaying large corporations in matters like this. Think of the USBC mandate solving all kinds of issues with chargers. I still have these multi-adapter cables with 11 different eds for Alcatel, Nokia Sony, micro, mini Iphone and other connectors. It was an absolute mess. I have a phone, it's like 3-4 years old and the only reason to replace it is the battery. Disassembly is super inconvenient with a heat gun, removing glue and so on. As near as 8 years ago we were still making phones that had replaceable battery.
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There are only a couple of different connectors on phones now for around a decade, Apple has their lightning connector and everything else is micro USB or more recently USB-C, and all of these cords terminate on the other end with USB A or C. The government didn't need to mandate anything here, the market already settled on something and as usual the government is a decade behind. At some point in the future when USB-C is long obsolete it will still be mandated by these laws which will still be at least a decade behind.
eugene:
--- Quote from: james_s on June 19, 2023, 06:58:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on June 19, 2023, 05:40:29 pm ---Yes, it absolutely is. The consumers have absolutely no way of swaying large corporations in matters like this. Think of the USBC mandate solving all kinds of issues with chargers. I still have these multi-adapter cables with 11 different eds for Alcatel, Nokia Sony, micro, mini Iphone and other connectors. It was an absolute mess. I have a phone, it's like 3-4 years old and the only reason to replace it is the battery. Disassembly is super inconvenient with a heat gun, removing glue and so on. As near as 8 years ago we were still making phones that had replaceable battery.
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There are only a couple of different connectors on phones now for around a decade, Apple has their lightning connector and everything else is micro USB or more recently USB-C, and all of these cords terminate on the other end with USB A or C. The government didn't need to mandate anything here, the market already settled on something and as usual the government is a decade behind. At some point in the future when USB-C is long obsolete it will still be mandated by these laws which will still be at least a decade behind.
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I'm not familiar with all of the devices that tszaboo mentions with odd connectors for charging. Everything handheld that I've purchased in the past decade or so has had micro-B, and then increasingly C type USB connectors for charging. It took me a long time to realize that the EU mandating USB C was in reality all about forcing Apple to toe the line. Is there a similarly unspoken motivation behind the replaceable battery mandate?
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