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| tszaboo:
--- Quote from: tom66 on February 21, 2023, 03:48:28 pm ---Good diagram. But, does it account for the difficulty in insulating UK homes to support heat pumps? Having embarked upon the process of insulating our 1930's detached home, it is definitely not a trivial process usually requiring bespoke techniques for each property. --- End quote --- Heat is heat. There is no difference for heat pump heat or heat from a boiler or gas. |
| mikeselectricstuff:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on February 21, 2023, 03:57:36 pm --- --- Quote from: tom66 on February 21, 2023, 03:48:28 pm ---Good diagram. But, does it account for the difficulty in insulating UK homes to support heat pumps? Having embarked upon the process of insulating our 1930's detached home, it is definitely not a trivial process usually requiring bespoke techniques for each property. --- End quote --- Heat is heat. There is no difference for heat pump heat or heat from a boiler or gas. --- End quote --- Not true. optimum working temperature is different between different systems - heat pumps don't produce the higher temperatures needed to overcome poor insulation. Replacing a traditional pumped water/gas CH system with HP usually requires radiators to be up-sized to get the same output at a lower temperature drop. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on February 21, 2023, 02:31:29 pm ---Yeah, people who are not into this field don't realize this. You can store enough energy in a 0201 capacitor, that shorting out this capacitor would create a tiny spark that can set hydrogen on fire. It's very very explosive, odorless, and the storage conditions are crazy compared to propane for example. It can literally go through steel for example due to the small atoms, and crack it in the process (called hydrogen embrittlement). When they talk about adding it to regular district heating, I really hope they know what they are doing, because it would be a disaster, if pipes of the gas network would wear out and break. --- End quote --- Again: the gas made from coal contained lots of hydrogen and was transported through steel pipes without problems. Embrittlement only happens at special conditions. Hydrogen is not something new. Secondly, most natural gas infrastructure is made from hydrogen compatible 'plastic' and joints. Yeah, people who are not into this field don't realize this. It is all about conditions... |
| tszaboo:
--- Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 21, 2023, 04:10:48 pm --- --- Quote from: tszaboo on February 21, 2023, 03:57:36 pm --- --- Quote from: tom66 on February 21, 2023, 03:48:28 pm ---Good diagram. But, does it account for the difficulty in insulating UK homes to support heat pumps? Having embarked upon the process of insulating our 1930's detached home, it is definitely not a trivial process usually requiring bespoke techniques for each property. --- End quote --- Heat is heat. There is no difference for heat pump heat or heat from a boiler or gas. --- End quote --- Not true. optimum working temperature is different between different systems - heat pumps don't produce the higher temperatures needed to overcome poor insulation. Replacing a traditional pumped water/gas CH system with HP usually requires radiators to be up-sized to get the same output at a lower temperature drop. --- End quote --- If it works for Norway, there is really no reason why it wouldn't work for the UK or here. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on February 21, 2023, 04:13:00 pm --- --- Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 21, 2023, 04:10:48 pm --- --- Quote from: tszaboo on February 21, 2023, 03:57:36 pm --- --- Quote from: tom66 on February 21, 2023, 03:48:28 pm ---Good diagram. But, does it account for the difficulty in insulating UK homes to support heat pumps? Having embarked upon the process of insulating our 1930's detached home, it is definitely not a trivial process usually requiring bespoke techniques for each property. --- End quote --- Heat is heat. There is no difference for heat pump heat or heat from a boiler or gas. --- End quote --- Not true. optimum working temperature is different between different systems - heat pumps don't produce the higher temperatures needed to overcome poor insulation. Replacing a traditional pumped water/gas CH system with HP usually requires radiators to be up-sized to get the same output at a lower temperature drop. --- End quote --- If it works for Norway, there is really no reason why it wouldn't work for the UK or here. --- End quote --- The key word here is: insulation And the diagram is horribly optimistic where it comes to the efficiency. At low temperatures the heat pumps will have to go into resistive heating mode requiring the original 70GW. And what happens if the turbines don't spin? Bottom line: the diagram is made by a complete idiot. What will work is using hybrid heatpump boilers. These use their heatpump only when the COP is positive and the burner to give a boost when it is really cold. Hydrogen provides electricity, storage and fuel. |
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